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Gandalf the Wizard New user 90 Posts |
Hello there
I am very interested in the effect "Retribution", shown in the Eugene Burger's video "Eugene Goes Bizarre". I would like knowing if someone performs it in his routines, if they have a different story or a different form to show it. Thanks Gandalf |
EvanSparts Veteran user Michigan 333 Posts |
Im watching the dvd right now and I don't see an effect called retribution on that one, do you have the tape or the dvd just wondering if they are different.
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Gandalf the Wizard New user 90 Posts |
The effect Retribution performing for Eugene in the video is a ritual realized with five Tarot cards and parchment with instructions, The effect is for a spell to affect a chosen person. One Tarot card is chosen, and the name of the person is burn. The effect culminates with the pentacle symbol appearer burning in the tarot card and Eugene cuts his arm with a knife.
I wait may talk about stories or alternative forms to present this effect. My English is no good, I hope you can understand. Thanks Gandalf |
RBerteig Regular user Monrovia, California 146 Posts |
If I recall correctly, Eugene may call the effect "A Strange Ritual". In it he tells a story about receiving some old tarot cards and a note, and following the ritual described in the note. The punchline involves a pentagram burned through the Hanged Man which was earlier shown intact.
I pulled together the bits to perform this, and worked out a different/possibly stronger ending some years ago, but never actually added it to my normal routine. I believe it is a well thought out effect in Eugene's typical style. As written it works well for someone who's performance character is similar to Eugene's. It would require substantial reworking to fit if your character is not a serious, deliberate, well-spoken type. Typical for Eugene, the actual effect is simple both in result and execution. It is the structure of the story and the "extra actions" that make it interesting. Gandalf, I would encourage you to consider using it. Since English is not your native language, nor is it likely to be your performance language, you might want to begin with a careful translation. When translating, use vocabulary and phrasing consistent with your character, while retaining the slightly ominous and creepy overtones in the original story. Above all, have fun with it
Ross Berteig
Wizards in my Parlor |
rickmagic1 Inner circle MIddle Tennessee area 1544 Posts |
Fantastic effect! David Parr took it and used it for a "wolfman" presentation, I do believe.
Rick I forgot to add this. He has a different handling that is more "user friendly" for the general magician. It is called "The Burned Card" and that can be found in his book "Mastering The Art of Magic". I'm working on a different presentation for that one which combines three separate ideas of Eugene's that gel together better for me. Rick
Richard Green
The Modern Conjurer Coming soon: Victorian Secrets: An Evening With The Spirits! |
Clifford the Red Inner circle LA, California 1941 Posts |
It is a wonderful example of a piece with a deeper meaning to it. "It said pick someone selfish, and I suddenly realized - I should have chosen MYSELF."
I really like artful, well-written pieces that incorporate food for thought in them.
"The universe is full of magical things, waiting for our wits to grow sharper." Eden Philpotts
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EvanSparts Veteran user Michigan 333 Posts |
Really this is not on my dvd I'm so bummed out. is there more than one bizzare tape, like one in one series and then one in the chicago tapes?
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StrangeMagick Special user 635 Posts |
I know it's on my tape version. This is the one where Eugene slashes himself with a razor as "retribution". If it's not on the DVD, then the DVD does not contain the same material as the tape.
Dave |
EvanSparts Veteran user Michigan 333 Posts |
Any where I can see this?
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Gandalf the Wizard New user 90 Posts |
Hi Ross, Thank you for his suggestions.
I am working on the translation of the effect and studying the Eugene performance. However, with this post I wanted to know if someone have another forms to present it, other end or story for this effect. The idea is to have more alternatives to adapt the effect to my character. I like very much the presentation of the Eugene in the video, however, I am very respectful of the work of the other magician and I would not like to copy his work, but finding my own way to realize the effect. If it is possible for you share with me your ideas. Tanks Gandalf |
rickmagic1 Inner circle MIddle Tennessee area 1544 Posts |
EvanSports,
If you have the Chicago Tapes set, it should be a performance on the Eugene Goes Bizarre DVD, and it's just prior to Eugene's explanation of the Haunted Pack at the end of the performance. I've not seen the DVD version, so I can't comment more than that. I do have a video of that so I'm only going by that. Rick
Richard Green
The Modern Conjurer Coming soon: Victorian Secrets: An Evening With The Spirits! |
Mark Rough Inner circle Ivy, Virginia 2110 Posts |
EvanSports,
It is on the Chicago Tapes dvd. I have it. There's no explanation, just a performance. As Rick said, it's right before the haunted deck explanation. The explanation can be found in Mastering The Art of Magic (as a straight card effect. . .well sort of). It's also the basis for David Parr's werewolf effect in Brain Food. Gandalf, just be warned. Channeling Eugene is not as easy as it seems. But I'm betting you'll find a way to make it suit your own personality. Oh, by the way, a good straight razor can be obtain from Blackhart. He's a member here, and is a dealer of things for the bizarrist. Have fun, Mark
What would Wavy do?
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Zack Special user 551 Posts |
I love Eugene's work but I've always disliked "retribution."
It's moralistic and preachy. Almost like a drivers ed film..."see what happens if you mess with the powers of darkness!" The ending makes no sense: If the character has already killed himself, ho could he be telling the story? If not, then Why did he choose this particular moment to kill himself? These are the sort of things that are handled well in a Poe or Lovecraft story, which have the feel of hastily scribbled last confessions...it works in print, but seems strange in monologue. The narrator's death comes not through tragic fatalism, nor through the agency of the black magic that he used, but by his own hand--he feels bad, so he kills himself. Ultimately this is nothing more than the sort of stories that kids who frighten themselves with ouija boards...people don't usually kill themselves behind it. |
RBerteig Regular user Monrovia, California 146 Posts |
Eugene also wrote about this effect in one of his books. My library is in disarray (a small understatement ) so I can't trivially locate it. I believe that in the book version he didn't do the razor thing. Personally, I would leave out the razor and avoid the whole issue of whether a suicide by the narrator is implied or required. As told in his story it is the restaurant manager who turned up dead as a result of the magician's actions, not the magician, so there is no internal contradiction.
My ending involves some business with a mirror and appearing writing that punches up the moral without the need to ever clean stage blood out of someone's white carpeting. The mechanics of it have changed a few times and it has never been performed so I won't tip anything more about it in an open forum. If you just have to know, PM me and I will describe the alpha version in more detail. I have to agree, however, that it is certainly one of the more overtly preachy presentations of Eugene's. And that counts his Card Warp presentation called "The Inquisition", which also has a strong message but manages to sneak the message in while the audience is still grasping at any shred of remaining trust in normal reality. I should go locate my props for Retribution and dust them off. I may have grown enough in my own performance and character to finish the task of making it fit my character well enough to perform. Gandalf, as with all of Eugene's best work, the trick itself is almost too simple. One of the more important lessons I have learned from Eugene is that a simple trick carried by the unstoppable force of a good story can go further than the most amazing magician-fooler without a story, at least in the hands of a master. The actual nature of the story matters little, as long as the workings of the trick are covered by the pace of the story, and as long as the trick itself enhances the story without becoming a distraction. In this case the story certainly is sound, if a trifle message-heavy, so beginning with a translation to your character's voice and mannerisms (and preferred language if not English, as in Gandalf's case) is a good starting point. I suspect that the message could be turned down to somewhat less than "driver's ed film" without any loss. Certainly starting by loosing the razor or giving it better justification if it has to remain would help. Oh, and to truly channel Eugene, you need a voice that people would pay to hear read the phone book. Orson Wells, Charlton Heston, James Earl Jones, and Eugene Burger have it. I don't, myself. But I am still working on the beard
Ross Berteig
Wizards in my Parlor |
EvanSparts Veteran user Michigan 333 Posts |
I found it I had it all the time on the dvd bot do I feel dumb.
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rickmagic1 Inner circle MIddle Tennessee area 1544 Posts |
Ross,
I've found that if you just work on inflection on words, add tons of emotion (as needed, not too much), it can make all the difference in the world. If you want a great example, whenever you get a chance go see Max Howard lecture. He really knows how to do this and has taught me quite a bit. Rick
Richard Green
The Modern Conjurer Coming soon: Victorian Secrets: An Evening With The Spirits! |
Moonlit Knight Regular user U.S. 113 Posts |
“The Inquisition” and “A Bizarre Ritual” sometimes thought of as “Retribution” are both located in Eugene’s “The Experience of Magic”. Note: “A Bizarre Ritual” is different than that of “Retribution”, however, they both include a “spell” and the revelation of a pentacle being burnt into a tarot card.
Gandalf, look to the ideas presented by Mr. Burger and use some of the suggestions proposed by those who responded and come up with something that will work for you, even if that means changing it completely. If you need our ideas as to what we do in the performance of the effect, if we perform the effect, - then perhaps you are not ready to tackle it, yet. That is, if it’s meant for you to do, you should give it some time and think about it for a while on your own. Finding your own way to “realize the effect” comes from within you - your knowledge, your life, and your personal discoveries - presentation is a deeply personal thing. Once you offer your thoughts about what you may or may not believe will or will not work, then post that (if you are so inclined), I am sure many of us will give you food for thought as to how you might better your presentation. As an aside - I’ve always thought Eugene Burger resembled Colonel Henry Steel Olcott as seen in the photograph with Madame Blavatsky (the photo can be seen online at http://aryasangha.org/obeye-2.htm ) Just wanted to share my thoughts .
"Join the dance... Follow on! With a twist of the world we go."
- Genesis "Dancing With The Moonlit Knight" |
RBerteig Regular user Monrovia, California 146 Posts |
Thanks to Moonlit Knight, I just re-read Eugene's discussion of A Bizarre Ritual from his book The Experience of Magic.
As many of us are, I was confounding two presentations of the same effect. In the book, it is a selected card that becomes the basis for a moment of insight for the spectator, and then is burnt as a transference effect of the bizarre ritual. In the video, it becomes a story-teller's effect and reflects back on the narrator's character in a way that sends a message. I believe is earliest version was just a card discovery where the chosen card is discovered burnt. Three different tones, one trick. As I said before, the basic trick is simple. But with the framework of story, it goes from just a striking card discovery to a personal moment, to a gripping story with a strong moral. I think I have to echo some of Moonlit's thoughts above. Find your own story. Draw it out of your own well of inspiration and experience. If it doesn't come easily, then set the idea aside for a time and let it mature on its own. That is truly the path to the creation of a signature piece, one that carries your character furthest and leaves your audiences with their strongest memories. However, while the creative process comes together, I encourage you to learn one of the published versions, because as you begin this process it helps to gain experience with audience reactions to the effect itself. Just don't loose sight of the need to adapt the presentation to suit you. Part of Eugene's discussion is how this effect started as "just a card trick" but evolved into something entirely different. He discusses at some length in is characteristic style the how and why of that evolution. I can't recommend this book strongly enough. It would be an ideal companion to the Chicago Sessions DVD set. If read thoughtfully, it teaches a way to think about the construction of magical presentations. It may not be the only way, but it is his way and it works.
Ross Berteig
Wizards in my Parlor |
Gandalf the Wizard New user 90 Posts |
Appreciated friends
I was looking for a little more information for this effect and knowing another experiences. All his remarks are very valuable and I accord with his reflections. There is no doubt, the creation of the presentation of an effect is something very personal and that one is the way that I have been following. However, all the references and reflections made in his remarks they are of a lot of utility in this process. For the moment only I have the video Eugene goes Bizarre, I hope to in the future acquire some of the materials that they have done mention. Thanks for everything Gandalf |
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