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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
The acronym is not a logo persay unless there is a consistent image or graphic treatment that it is always done in. If it is just type, then it is not considered a logo. If it is designed graphically and always appears a certain way, then it can be considered as a logo mark.
In this case, it porbably is more then likely what we call a trademark or service mark. These are referenced as TM or SM when you see them out in the ad world. This means that the slogan or wording is what is being copyrighted and protected. If the wording is trademarked or service marked, then it means the wording and use of the acronym can not be used by anyone else. It is exsclusive ownership of the person who paid for it from a design agency etc. So although it may not physically be a logo (unless done graphically and consistently) it can and more then likely is still a legal trademark that can not be dupmicated in any fashion. Hope this helps. I deal and design many logos and marks for magicians and entertainers over the years andso I have always run across this quite often. Hope this sheds some light on the subject. Kyle Here is some additonal information you may find helpful. What is a Trademark? A trademark includes any word, name, symbol, or device, or any combination, used, or intended to be used, in commerce to identify and distinguish the goods of one manufacturer or seller from goods manufactured or sold by others, and to indicate the source of the goods. In short, a trademark is a brand name. What is a service mark? A service mark is any word, name, symbol, device, or any combination, used, or intended to be used, in commerce, to identify and distinguish the services of one provider from services provided by others, and to indicate the source of the services. Hope this may help a bit. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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Keith Raygor Special user Naples, FL 968 Posts |
R2,
This is not legal advice, as I am not an attorney. It is my understanding of the law after research and consultation with an Intellectual Property attoney. As a protective measure, you can begin to use the "sm" symbol near your slogan, putting others on notice that this is YOUR servicemark. Trademark and Servicemark law is based on the concept of first usage. You do not need to register a trademark or service mark to establish your rights to it. If you simply USE your slogan and continue using the mark to identify it, you can establish 'common law' rights that will help to establish your prior use. Registration of your trademark or service mark offers several advantages including if you're sued over whose servicemark it is. You can click on my website and see my application of this on the bottom of each page. |
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Wolfgang Loyal user TEXAS 223 Posts |
Keith Raygor is right. You put TM beside a logo or business name that you want to own. It is your way of letting others know that you claim it. Companies use it while they are in the process of registering their mark. Then, when it is legally registered, they replace the TM (or SM) with a ®. It's a good way to publicly document ownership of something.
Having been in advertising many years, I've have had more ideas, slogans, and headlines ripped off than I can count. It's very common. And when ideas aren't getting stolen, they're getting killed or changed by the client's spouse. So what do I do? Unless it results in legal action on the client's part, I just come up with something else. It's usually the easiest solution. And often leads to something better since you already have a benchmark. If you really want to keep using your F.A.M.I.L.Y. theme as it currently is, send cease and desist letters to the culprits. And unless the situation has created confusion in your market, I wouldn't worry any more about it. I'd only be worried if another magician were calling himself ReyRey. Then you would have a problem. (P.S. ReyRey, about the Margaritas in your Avatar, Cointreau or Triple Sec?) If you want to see what I meant by advertisers constantly borrowing ideas, go here. Sometimes it's a coincidence, but often it's not.
"Sure, I do Scotch and Soda in every show. What? You mean there's a trick by that name?"
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R2 Special user 935 Posts |
I really appreciate all of the overwhelming support, knowledge, opinions, and advice that I have recieved here in this post. I didn't expect to learn so much as I have.
I must admit that I should have informed myself on this subject more than I have before putting myself out on the matter. Here locally, I have made contact with the individuals whom were using it. One of them told me that the logo and slogan were suggested by a friend not from seeing my trailer or marketing materials. I shall have to give him the benefit of the doubt. He made a promise to remove my slogan and acronym logo from his materials and website. The other two haven't returned my call yet. I shall see what happens. I have already started brainstorming a new idea. Perhaps it will turn out far better than the current one. Sir Wolfgang and Sir Raygor, I most value your information. Kyle, I cannot believe that I still have your support after our differences of opinion here lately. It sure speaks much of your character! Thanks to everyone thus far~!R2 |
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Keith Raygor Special user Naples, FL 968 Posts |
Wolfgang mentioned something that begs reiteration:
"If you really want to keep using your F.A.M.I.L.Y. theme as it currently is, send cease and desist letters to the culprits." As a practical matter, by the time these issues land in court, of consequence is the manner in which you've ATTEMPTED to protect your property. I'll oversimplify - if you never take any action to request the rascals to stop their harmful actions, you've not protected yourself and the courts don't want to hear from you. Send the letters. They are your strongest case that you are serious about something belonging to you. These are my understandings so far (for you legal types). |
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MagicalPirate Special user Shamokin, PA 828 Posts |
Keith:
I would suggest that on your site that you put the text of your slogan into the alt="" in your image at the bottom. This will google your slogan and would help in the instance of ever having to protect it. Also if all people could remember was your slogan they would still be able to find you. Googling now only gets Magic Café hits. Martin
Martin Blakley, CSH, DASH, CMSA
http://www.thehypnoguy.com/HYPNORESOURCES http://www.docgrayson.com/ How To Sell Anything Online http://tub.bz/?r=1z Copyright to my own words retained 100%. |
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Keith Raygor Special user Naples, FL 968 Posts |
Great idea, MagicalPirate!
Thank you. |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
That is a great idea Martin. Thanks for sharing it with us.
Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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cupsandballsmagic Inner circle 2705 Posts |
You know, I don't even send ANY of my material, letterheads, acrds etc AT ALL to other magicians or dealers now.
When I was younger I was foolish enough to send a letter to a dealer (who you all probably know of) regarding one of their effects. A couple of months later their adds started changing and so did their image, to what was my logo. Now this ******d me off and as a result I altered my logo. Now I am older and have more confidence I would not change my logo because of someone's theft but that was many years ago. |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
As a graphic designer I have designed many logos for magicians and have seen my images being used by others who have not paid for the rights to use them. Because of this, I copyright every design that I do for myself or for any client. It does help and it persuades (just a little) others from using it.
If I do see someone who is using one of my logos illegally, I usually can send them an e-mail exolaining the situation and it is usually corrected. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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cupsandballsmagic Inner circle 2705 Posts |
Hi Kyle,
This is something I will certainly do in the future, thank you for the heads up. It upsets me having anything stolen so I can imagine how someone like (say) Jim Steinmeyer must feel when he spends (perhaps) thousands of $'s and time creating prototypes of an illusion and finally nailing it after so much tweaking only to have someone say "I'll have that!"....... |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
Gambituk:
Thanks for the kind words. Anyone can copyright there stuff by placing a copyright symbol and a date next to their piece. Now keep in mind that this is only limited protection, but it does help and it is legal. yes, it is very annoying to see my designs get ripped off and yes it frustrates me as well as my clients of whom I am designing the logo for. Usually I deal with it professionally by first sending an e-mail to the person. In mnost instances, the person amazingly enough just did not think there was anything wrong with it and they do remove the image or logo. It is sad to think that a lot of people think anything they see on the web is up for grabs. It is as if the web is a safe haven where copyright laws do not apply. It is easy for anyone to copy a file off a website so they do. To protect myself, I have a copyright symbol on all logos and art I create for the web. I also have a copyright line I use on my web pages. It is certainly not a cure all, but it does help a bit. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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Wolfgang Loyal user TEXAS 223 Posts |
Legally, things are copyrighted upon creation.
But what Kyle does is smart. By putting a copyright symbol or line on your creation, you're letting others know it is not public domain and that you claim ownership of it.
"Sure, I do Scotch and Soda in every show. What? You mean there's a trick by that name?"
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
Wolfgang. Exactly. It also persuades people from downloading your image or logo when it is on yourwebsite. People may think twice about taking it if they see a copyright symbol on the logo as well as a simple copyright line mentioned at the bottom of the webpage. It is a good practice to do.
Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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