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deanpickles New user 53 Posts 
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Has anyone written about using the Hero's Journey to map out a routine? I feel like this should have been touched on in Magic & Meaning -- I remember either Berger or Neale discussing Jane Yolen's writings around myth, which treads similar waters -- but I don't think it really was. I'm sure Berger talks about it briefly in Strange Ceremonies. Someone must have discussed it deeper, though. I'd love to read some thoughts of magicians better than I....
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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I am only an amateur. I think the difference between a play and magic is that there is no denouement after the climax in magic: conflicts are not resolved; the audience is left in a dilemma. Thus, the structures for drama do not fit the bill for our magic. Our magic also is not set in the context of a fantasy world but in the context of the real world: it is magic because it cannot be here and now. The Hero's Journey is better suited for film and plays, perhaps.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Quote: Is the Dai Vernon presentation of the Triumph effect close enough? Our craft brings story to the audience in terms of effect - the story they tell others about what they saw happen.
On May 13, 2019, deanpickles wrote: Fables (stories) have frames. A guy named Propp did some interesting work on stories and culture that you might find useful when designing routines.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts
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Don't tell stories about the Trickster. Be the Trickster. People should be telling stories about you. "I saw this guy and he..."
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deanpickles New user 53 Posts
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Ah, but Pop -- even with your dollar bill to raw egg, there's storytelling, and narrative, and plot. It's not just a trick. It's a trick with a story defining it. The advice is solid -- "Don't tell a tale" -- but I'm considering how the basic Joseph Campbell plot structure could be used to help direct the plot within the trick, and drive it further and deeper...
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Getting a volunteer up to be the star of a routine ... like in a kids show?
Call to adventure. Discovery of seemingly impossible challenge. A few false starts. Some initiation/instruction. It worked! Take a bow. Return to audience as a hero.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 11, 2019, deanpickles wrote: It may be that you will be forcing a form on the trick instead of discovering what is actually within needing to be told. Why slather meaning onto the trick before discovering what meaning is already there? I am not saying you would do that, just warning that it is something to beware of... |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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“Derren Brown plans on creating a scenario where his subject, Phil, a man who believes that America has an ‘immigration problem’, will willingly sacrifice his own life for a stranger he wouldn’t identify with, specifically an illegal immigrant.”
https://www.unilad.co.uk/film-and-tv/der......ts-life/ Escape artists tend to save themselves whereas heroes tend to save others.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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deanpickles New user 53 Posts
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Yeah, Derren Brown and Andy J are definitely primo users of the technique. I should go re-read Amateur at the Kitchen Table...
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 11, 2019, deanpickles wrote: That's a different kind of issue. First they have to give you permission to affect them at all. Awkward procedures and obviously specious magical cues don't help. Jerry Deutsch has been sharing fine short routines which leave room for your character to be seen or perhaps change as your act goes along.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Getting back to myth: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-i-sel......_6739046
His may well be a more useful approach for us. 
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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Patter calls on the imagination and so patter like a book can take the company on a magic carpet ride to far-away places, without them ever leaving their chairs. The magician can claim he had an adventure and discovered some lost ancient knowledge at some other place and time. The lost ancient knowledge gives him the apparent ability to do something thought impossible and so then by way of an experiment he proves the fantastic story true. Put simply, the conjurer can conjure up the hero’s journey in their head. The story incidentally best not be believable: indeed it has to be received with absolute incredulity in order to give him something incredible to prove to create the dilemma when proved.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 26, 2019, tommy wrote: I like this very much, tommy. IF the sonic screwdriver actually works, and IF the Tardis is actually bigger inside than outside, THEN Dr. Who may be telling the truth, and he IS a time lord and the world IS being invaded by Daleks...You should give him the help he is asking. Whether the story is presented as serious and important or tongue-in-cheek absurd fantasy, the magic event is framed as existing as part of a story that exists in the past and continues on into the future after the show. This story isn't "told" in the performance, but is the backstory that explains what the magician is doing here in this performance, and why. The audience may find hints and suggestions about this story in the performance, but this little piece of the story--the performance--is a distinct and necessary part of the overall tale. |
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deanpickles New user 53 Posts
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That's actually a really interesting twist to the concept. It's part of the silent script, not the spoken one. Perfect!!
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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Dr Who, we knew him well: when he was real and we were not. When one meets Dr Who on the street it is not he who gets into character because he IS. JP, he was a wonderful guy.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » Hero's Journey in Magic Scripts (4 Likes) | |
Posted: May 13, 2019 11:10 pm 
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