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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Polly wants a cracker... » » What is the best vanishing birdcage? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Jeff Kellogg
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Dan, that is a COOL tip. I have never heard of that before.
Christopher Moro
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Yes, that's a very good tip. Dan's right about doing more than just "the move." I also learned to tilt the front of the cloth forward ever so slightly as you execute the move.
Jason Purdy
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What can I say that hasn’t already been said? I currently own a Nielsen and a Proline ULTIMATE SIX DOVE CAGE VANISH V2.0. I had first purchased the Nielsen (used) and it needed some work. I sent it to Norm and had new cage bars in stalled and new trays that the bars slide into. I had the top flange re-aligned as well as a new road case built (not ata.) The cage could use a refinishing and paint job, but other than that, it works great. I decided to purchase the Proline cage because I liked the idea of a floor, as well as the trim the separates the cage from the table. Also, I wanted to be able to compare the two cages side by side, and work with them both… I have likes and dislikes about both cages.

Lou Hilario has previously stated, “I used the Nielsen Cage for several years. I stopped when some of my audience said that it didn't really look like a cage.” I feel this is kind of true for many makes of vanishing cages. Think about the cages you keep you birds in. Or the cages you find in a pet store. Do they look the same? NO. So it is true, the Nielsen doesn’t look like a “typical” birdcage.

The Nielsen cage and base is longer. Six (fat) doves fit more comfortably on the perch. The Proline is a tighter fit for all six (but still works fine) I usually have only four in the cage, and four in a Doves to Rabbit anyway,… SO this wasn’t a real factor.

The Nielsen is SMOOTHER, faster, and quieter… They both have created “suction” from time to time, but its all about the timing and movement. (Besides if you were actually carrying a covered cage… cloth may move a bit as you walk.) Another tip is to have your dowels longer that the top of the cage. (Approximately 1”)

My Proline may be a newer model as it “locks” open in a similar fashion to the Nielsen… I have never had a problem with an accidental vanish. I am having a hard time deciding on which cage to keep! My intent is to sell one or the other… I am almost positive I am going to keep the PROLINE! I can’t believe it, but all in all, it has been more reliable for me. (EVEN THOUGH I DON’T HAVE A CASE.)

There is another major factor that has influenced my decision thus far… I do not trim my doves tail feathers. This is a problem in the Nielsen cage! After the vanish, the tail feathers of my doves are visible because they stick out ½” or more from the back! I have come up with three potential fixes for my problem. First, I can change the perch design and placement so the birds are positioned further forward in the cage. Second, I could ad a black fabric flap to the top of the cage that would cover and conceal the tips of the feathers. Or, I could trim the tail feathers. But like I said, I don’t trim them. Not for any other productions or vanishes, so why would I want to trim them just to vanish them in the Nielsen cage? Even know the Proline cage dimensions are smaller; with the way it is constructed it is wider from perch to back edge of the table “base”.

At any rate, here are some other thoughts… If you have a Nielsen, You need to keep the inside clean from bird droppings and feathers to protect the working of the cage. One thing I have found helpful is to line the interior of the table with BLACK construction paper. The birds mess the paper and not the delicate trays. The Proline floor is very easy to clean.

Also table height may be important to you? The Nielsen cage in its “closed” position is 31 ¼” tall. The Proline is shorter at 28 ½”.

Like I said, I’ll be selling one or the other. (Most likely, the Nielsen) Interested? Just let me know!

~Jason
Jeff Kellogg
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Jason, I REALLY apreciate all of your help and honesty about your cages. I have been leaning very far towards the Nielson, but no one has ever mentioned that the birds tail feathers stick out the back of the cage once vanished. I too have NEVER trimmed my birds feathers. I love my birds to much to do it, and at this point I don't even think about it. So when you say you have a problem with your NIelson and the feathers, I don't know what to think. Has anyone ever had/heard of this problem before? I was soooo close to buying a Nielson without knowing this SLIGHT problem.
Thanks again Jason for bringing this problem to my attention

-JK
Christopher Moro
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Jeff: It's true, I have seen a tail or two stick out after the vanish. Jason's remedy of attaching a piece of fabric is a brilliantly simple idea for a remedy. You could attach a black, ridgid piece of fabric or plastic that extends about 1-1 1/2" out and you could fashion it so that it angles like the slope of the table and it should land flush. Great tip!

Jason: Your Proline cage LOCKS!!!?!?!?! My goodness! I've been struggling with the fact that mine does not for years and years. I've tried tons of remedies, even got a new "catch" made and I still have the problem. I wonder if you might consider sharing the "fix"? I'd be more than happy to use the PM feature (once I learn how that is done) of course, if you didn't mind elaborating on what has been a major problem for me for so long. (It's totally understandable if you wish not to, by the way Smile Thanks!
BTW: I hear Tilford sells a nice case for the Proline for $500.
distrikt magic
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Hi –
With regards to the predictability of the Vanishing Dove Cage effect previously mentioned by some members: James Dimmare seems to have a surprise ending to it by 'shrinking' the cage first, and then vanishing the miniature cage without cover. You might want to check his promo video:

http://dimmare.com/html/magic_promo_video.html

Martin
hugmagic
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Yes, James Dimmare came up a with a very good variation on the Vanishing Cage. But it is his alone and should stay that way.
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
Jason Purdy
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Quote:
On 2005-02-10 00:35, Christopher Moro wrote:
Jason: Your Proline cage LOCKS!!!?!?!?! My goodness! I've been struggling with the fact that mine does not for years and years. I've tried tons of remedies, even got a new "catch" made and I still have the problem. I wonder if you might consider sharing the "fix"?


Sorry for the misunderstanding. It sounds like I have the same "catch" you have. (U shaped on the end.) When I read your previous post

Quote:
My Proline Mark 2, however relies on gravity alone to hold it in the starting positing and is therefore less reliable.


I thought you didn't have a catch at all. In my comparison of the cages I was trying to convey while both catches are quite different, (between the Nielsen and the Proline), they do essentially work in the same manor. A slot in the piston, and a Key or catch that holds the piston up.

I am assuming you have already experimented with this, but... Perhaps you have too much tension on the elastic cord? If you have too much tension the catch will always be trying to release. It shouldn't take very much tension (especially when you lift up on the cage because you are relieving the pressure etc. (Only a little tension on the elastic is needed.)

I have an idea on how you can permanently fix you problem though. I'm not sure how handy you are with tools, etc. but it should be an easy fix!

On the end of your catch, you would need to drill a small hole into the "U" shape and glue or wedge a thin piece of steel rod to create a PIN. Then you would need to line up you piston (making sure it is exactly where it needs to be) and drill a hole through it (slightly larger than your pin). This hole would accept the pin you added to your "catch".

This little procedure should defiantly fix your problem. Just keep in mind, it will still need to release all the way out in order for the cage to vanish. The pin you add to the "U" catch doesn't need to be real long.

I would start by looking at the elastic tension... If that doesn't fix your problem, I think the pin would fix you up!

Good luck!

~Jason Purdy
Christopher Moro
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Very, very helpful post, Jason. Thank you very much.
distrikt magic
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Of course I agree with you Mr. Hughes; I didn’t want to encourage anyone to copy what James Dimmare does with his cage, but merely point out that there ARE ways to make well-known effects novel and surprising again...
But let me point out another major advantage Dimmare’s effect seems to have over most similar products: most, or all, dove cages I have seen performed have to be carried with both hands above the cloth, at the top of the cage. This is probably not the way your average non-magical person would carry a big and relatively „heavy“ item with live birds in it; they would have at least one hand at the bottom of the cage, under the cloth, to stabilize it.
That’s exactly what Dimmare does...!
(The same advantage, by the way, is held by Ralf Bialla’s Vanishing Radio over most similar products.)
hugmagic
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I just watched a 1989 homemade video of SAM national contest in which Nathan Burton competed. He did a vanishing aquarijum a la bird cage which could be held by the lower corner on one side. Took me a little aback when I saw it as I hadn't look at this video in years.

Creativity is always an option. Greg Frewin did something very novel also.
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
prolineprops
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Hi All,

I come here very rarely as my schedule permits. I search to see if my products are a topic and I stumbled on this thread. I'm not at liberty to discuss in detail the differences between my cage and Mr. Neilsen's nor will I bash another builder on this forum. I will however offer my thoughts on this thread.

Jeff and Dave, I assure you my cage is not "garbage" or "crap". Dave, I'm sorry you had problems with my cage. We've never even spoken so I have no idea where you got it or what model it was. I would like a chance to discuss it with you.
Dealers the likes of Chalet Magic, Stevens Magic Emporium, and Denny & Lee have carried my cage not just Tilford. Top pros like Dan Sperry use, endorse, and reccomend it. Dan ownes two. Think about it, why would a pro like Dan Sperry use my cage if it "sucked"?

The cage has evolved through the years and undergone many changes. The 2005 model features a larger, heavier cloth and the release has had a "locking" feature for over a year now. I was forced to raise the price a bit but it still retails just under $2000. I plan to continue to improve it and welcome suggestions.

Regards,

Cliff Wiggs
Proline Magic
Doveman
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I own a proline and think it's GREAT!! The new model is a piece of art and has the locking feature that takes the stress off the performer. Keep in mind that every prop has a few problems. I have seen both in person and think the PROLINE is more deceptive. I LUVVV it.

Make sure you pick a good shipper!!! LOL....

Thanks Cliff

Wade
Christopher Moro
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Cliff:
It is terrific to hear that the Proline cage now has a lock feature. That's an invaluable addition to the cage and puts the comparison discussed earlier on this thread in a completely different light. I'd like to contact you regarding this feature in hopes of adding it to my older model.

Best,
Chris
prolineprops
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Chris,

I received your e-mail and promptly replied. Please contact me so we can fix your problem ASAP.

Cliff Wiggs
Proline Magic
Bob Sanders
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There you go. The Magic Café is about magicians helping magicians. And it works because you guys do!

Thanks!

Bob
Magic By Sander
Bob Sanders

Magic By Sander / The Amazed Wiz

AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com
prolineprops
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Hi again All,

Jason Purdy e-mailed me a fantastic idea for the cage. Stay tuned for details.

Thanks Jason!

Cliff Wiggs
Proline Magic
Christopher Moro
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Thanks for the email, Cliff. I received your response and we will both look into fixing the problem. I will post the result here at the Café for everyone. Thanks again.
Nick Wait
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So does it look like Proline have worked out all the niggles in previous cages and this is now the best. Who is it best to purchase this from?
Nick
prolineprops
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Quote:
On 2005-02-25 15:44, walsall wrote:
So does it look like Proline have worked out all the niggles in previous cages and this is now the best. Who is it best to purchase this from?
Nick


Hi Nick,

Buying a dove cage is like buying a car. You have to decide between quality, looks, features, and price. You will always find performers that prefer a certain brand. "Best" is subjective. I suggest you shop around and compare before you invest in any pricey purchase. E-mail me if you would like info or have questions about the features of my cage. I'd love to hear from you.

Regards,
Cliff Wiggs
Proline Magic
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