Which cage would alow you to leave your doves in their for longest. I mean do some require immediate removal. I could get them out within 10 minutes.
Are their any that are unsafe. My priority is always going to be safety.
Nick

Nick,

Jason Purdy e-mailed me his idea for airholes. All my cages will now have this feature so 10-15 minutes should not be a problem. It will be the only cage on the market with airholes.

Jason also had a killer idea for the bars which will make the cage look more substantial. Stay tuned as I'm almost finished prototyping.

Cliff Wiggs
Proline Magic

Sounds great. I've looked around and bbefore this was mentioned, it was between you and Norm Nielson. But you sound like the best to me and your cheaper.
Great work
Nick

Hi All,

Just an update for those interested. Several ideas have been implimented in the new Proline Dove Cage Vanish V 3.0. Please feel free to e-mail me for more details and pics.

Thanks to Jason Purdy and all here for the great ideas.

Regards,
Cliff Wiggs
Proline Magic

Hi Cliff,

You are welcome! I'm glad you liked my ideas. The v3.0 cage is the best yet. It looks great! Keep up the good work!

~Jason

From what I've seen (and I've been researching for about 3 months) Proline is the best.
Nick

After all of this posting and hububaloo, I think I've got my decision figured out. It is unfair to make a blanket statement as to which cage is the "best." Every performer needs different props to suit their needs and preferences. I got a chance to go see both cages side by side to compare them, (thank you Jason Purdy.) Jason showed me both cages for a couple of hours, and I came to the conclusion that although each cage has different features, they both weight out equally in different areas. Here is what I found. The release on the Nielson is both easier to perform and is soooo much quieter than the proline. The overall sound is quieter than the proline to, because it has way less moving parts. On the Nielson cage, the bars are moving and so is the piston, but that's it. The proline has the bars, the piston, and two seperatly moving parts within the base for the floor feature. The Proline creates a lot more friction with the vanish, and the Nielson is definitley a smoother, better WORKING cage. It is a beautiful, beautiful piece of craftmanship. The Nielson base is made of all solid, solid wood. It's like an extremely well-made piece of furniture. According to Norm, each cage is finished, painted with multiple layers of paint, then coated in 6 layers of laquer. This gives the Nielson a georgeous, classic, grand piano like finish- and it is beautiful looking. Norm places the trim perfectly on his table to give it an extremly deceptive look. The trim on the Proline, especially the new model, is not as deceptive as the Nielson at all. The feature that really sold me on the Nielson was the colapable table base. When packed flat, Norm's cage takes up every inch of it's case, making it way more compact. The Proline case has to be either made double the width, or almost double the height to accomadate for the bulky base. If you are like me and you do your bird act anywhere you can, Norm's table will travel better with you, and be more silent close-up. However, one draw back in the close-up situation is that the Nielson has no base to the cage. My opinion is that this doesn't matter one bit. It still looks like a cage. The Nielson bars are shaped in such a way and are wider so they create more glare off the lights to hide the fact that there is no base. I decided that audiences will not notice, and that having a base to my cage didn't matter when compared to the actual "worker" qualitys that the Nielson has. I've purchased my Nielson and I couldn't be happier with it. For me the Nielson was a no-brainer once I had compared the cages side by side. I hope this information helps anyone with there decisions.
Thanks -Jeff Kellogg

Jeff,

Glad to hear you're happy with your purchase. I would not have wanted it any other way.

I must disagree with a few points in your review. This is just to clarify and not to argue.

My cage "works" 100% of the time. If one of your doves bumps into your bars it will malfunction. There is a trade off for that reliability - you have to practice a little to get used to the initial 2" drop of my cage. It is not hard to master and the peace of mind is worth it.

How will your audience "not notice" when a dove jumps off the perch and disappears EXPOSING the method?

Regards,
Cliff Wiggs
Proline Magic

Hi Jeff,

You are welcome! It was a pleasure meeting you and being able to assist you in your search. I wish I'd had the opportunity to see the cages side by side too! It was hard to let the Nielsen go, as it was what I had always wanted. However, I did make my decision and I hope you enjoy your new to you Nielsen Vanishing Dove Cage.

Good luck in your competition!

~Jason

Thank you Jason, once again for the opportunity to see the cages side by side.

Cliff, to answer you question, If a bird jumps down to the floor of the cage during rehersal, I won't use that bird in my show. To tell you the truth, the same thing would happen on your cage because of the very slight amount of pressure that it takes to make the cages floor retract. Even the weight of one bird will make your cages floor go down. I think that your floor feature acts more as a convincer, rather than a real working floor. I never said that your cage doesn't work 100% of the time, just that the Nielson's release was a ton more simple and smooth and easy. The Nielson will most definitly not malfunction if a bird bumps into the bars. It actually takes a considerable amount of force to pull the bar out of it's track to make it "malfunction." The Nielson takes a kind of "getting used to" in order to make it work just perfectly, and if you do this getting used to, the Nielson will work mechanically better than the proline, and that's the bottome line. The craftmanship and fine- tuning of the Nielson makes it a better working cage, and if you are the kind of performer with a good attention to detail, who will take great care of his props, then the Nielson is for you. However, if you are not the kind of person who has the kind of time to take care of this work of art, then maybe something like the proline is for you. The proline will work 100% of the time, but doesn't work anywhere near as well as the Nielson does.

Jeff,

I have owned 2 Neilsen cages and repaired more than 10 different units so I am VERY familiar with Norm's unit. I have had over 20 years experience with his cage and I know it inside and out.

His method is flawed and unreliable. Only time with the cage will prove this true to you. I'm very limited as to what I can say on this forum so contact me if you want the details.I can speak of things and you can see what I'm talking about first hand.

As far as my floor goes. Yes, the weight of the bird may cause the floor to sag a little but never enough for the audience to notice and certainly not enough for the bird to vanish. It also covers the "hole" in the table. Perhaps the elastic was loose on Jason's cage.

Both cages "release" the same. My cage drops a little quicker initialy because of the bar tension (essential to reliability issues). Once again, contact me if you really want the truth. After that, the piston takes over just like the Neilsen and it is just as smooth. If not, the piston on Jason's cage needs some adjusting.

Regards,
Cliff Wiggs
Proline Magic

Hi all,

I know this has been mentioned already in the post but it is extremely important.

Don't forget ORIGINALITY---Greg Frewin, James Dimmare etc. Instead of simply "Vanishing" the cage, routine it into your act.

I love the vanishing dove cage but I too am tired of seeing it performed. I always like to see an original presentation of an old prop.

thanks

George

I too use the newer version of the Proline cage after Dan Sperry recommended it to me years ago and I love it. I had an older model as well that I replaced after it was damaged when I pipe broke where I was storing it. The locking feature on the new one is also a great addition. Not to mention that Cliff was always available for any questions etc. that I had.

Take care
Tim