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fccfp
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NJ
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Any one have a Price est on what a good set of Scotty York Knives should go for?
WHere could I get them?

Thanks
A.K.A. Jay The Magician
www.jaythemagician.com
joespc
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You might want to check Denny and Lee Magic Studio ( http://www.dennymagic.com ).

I don’t think that these knives are being produced anymore. I have seen them from time to time listed on eBay. The bidding was in the $100 to $200 range.
jerdunn
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And be sure you want this set. Although highly sought after, they aren't really the best for the effect, with discrepancies between the two sides and a tendency to flash the hidden color. Joe Mogar's knives (the Whit Haydn set) are much easier to work with and less prone to flash, IMO.

Cheers,
Jerry
BWind
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Jerdunn is correct about the Mogar Knives, however, the set that Whit uses on the "Intricate Web of Distraction" appears to be either a non Mogar or an early issue because you can sight the chrome shield on one side of the knife (like the York versions);

I personally still prefer the old Enardoe knives, except for the blades in the new models, they seem to rust almost immediately;
BWind
Dave V
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Jerry,
I don't understand... According to Scotty, the discrepancy in the sides is a feature, and the flashing issue is one of the things his knives solved.

If you're referring to the jigged surface of the black knife, it was done to facilitate finding the "right" side while still in your pocket. The rounded knives are "blade heavy" enough to cause them to roll slightly toward the spectator allowing you to place them on the table and still keep the bad side hidden.

Granted, I haven't seen the Mogar knives, but I'm fully satisfied with my York set.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Bill Wells
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With regard to the "Scotty York Knives". Unless Denny has a few old sets left, they aren't available anymore. The company were they were being made went out of business years ago. I think the real key to any knives is that they must look like the kind of pocket knives someone might carry (at least like they "used' to carry - since 9/11, you can't get on a plane with a pocket knife). Although, we sold the "York" set, my favorites have always been the Sanders knives.
Mitch Schneiter
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I too have a set of the York knives and I am very happy with them. I did notice a set was up for sale on E-bay recently. They ended up selling for $305.
Richard Evans
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I'd agree with Jerry - the Joe Mogar knives are the ones to go for.
Richard
I have six locks on my door all in a row. When I go out, I only lock every other one. I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three. Elayne Boosler
Whit Haydn
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The Mogar knives are great, and they are the ones that I use.

In my video, I am using a set of genuine Case knives made by JP Jackson in San Diego. I have a couple of sets of these. They are beautiful, but take a lot of care--they are not stainless and must be oiled and cleaned regularly.

This was one of the reasons School for Scoundrels had Joe Mogar create the "Whit Haydn Knives" set. They are stainless and easy to care for, and they have the rough and smooth sides that are so essential to my routine.

I use the Mogar knives now because they look great and are so much easier to care for.
Riley
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I've used various knives over the years. The Joe Mogar Knives are very nice to handle, a good size and the necessary sleights seem much easier to perform with these knives. Nice quality.
tabman
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Bill Wells will tell you that we were part of the Scotty York knife team and in fact sourced them and arranged for their initial manufacture. They were put together by Providence Knife Co. who is now out of business due to the influx of cheap third world knives. I still have several sets of them around the shop here. $300 on ebay huh!!! that's a lot of dough for a set of $20 knives!!! Wow!! My favorites are the old Merrill knives though.

-=tab
...Your professional woodworking and "tender" loving care in the products you make, make the wait worthwhile. Thanks for all you do...

http://Sefalaljia.com
toonomads
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I have both the York Knives and the School for Scoundrels (Mogar) Knives. The School Knives are easier to use and look like something a guy would actually carry in his pocket. They are also small, light and basically rust-proof.
Bill Wells
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Wow indeed ! Tabby - I would scout out "...those several sets..." you got around the shop. If folks are getting that kind of money for them on EBay, you might be able to retire!

I am sure you remember how many *** knives and places were searched out in finally deciding on the ones from Providence (I had forgotten the name).

What's the photo in the background in your avatar?
tabman
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I know. That was a lot of fun back in those days, not that its not fun now, but a very cool time and you were a big part of it. I'll never forget our Quebec City Convention where I got to know Scotty. Thanks for introducing us, it was a once in a lifetime experience working with him.

Yes, I could retire on those knife sets Smile I love the color changing knife trick, have since I was a kid Ive found another maker here in the south who is a small manufacturer of nice pocket knives. Ive got one in my pocket right now. They're expensive though but you could actually cut your way out of a straight jacklet with one of these.

The photo behind my head is one of the favorite things I collected while I was on the IBM convention trail with you. It's a photo from Okito's collection of a magicians' convention in Chicago back in his day. It's got a lot of the heavy hitters of magicdom in it with him. Can you id these men???

Image


This is one of the "doctored" photos that I used on the scam on the Genii Forum a couple of years ago - part of the punch line so to speak, but the one behind my big ole head is the original, undoctored, complete with the original Okito seal in the corner. I got it and some of the checks that Okito cashed from Joe Berg Magic.

your old pal,

-=tabman
...Your professional woodworking and "tender" loving care in the products you make, make the wait worthwhile. Thanks for all you do...

http://Sefalaljia.com
fccfp
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NJ
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Quote:
On 2005-02-03 13:12, whithaydn wrote:
The Mogar knives are great, and they are the ones that I use.

In my video, I am using a set of genuine Case knives made by JP Jackson in San Diego. I have a couple of sets of these. They are beautiful, but take a lot of care--they are not stainless and must be oiled and cleaned regularly.

This was one of the reasons School for Scoundrels had Joe Mogar create the "Whit Haydn Knives" set. They are stainless and easy to care for, and they have the rough and smooth sides that are so essential to my routine.


Whit,
I agree with you that the Mogar Knives are terrific. I just ordered a VC knife from Joe this afternoon. I have had the good fortune to meet Joe Mogar at a couple conventions where he was a vendor. He was generous with his time in helping me with his routine. (I already knew the moves.Smile ) I have his Stag sensation knife set and carry it regularly.

I am suprised to here that you are having a hard time with the Case knives. I have a few of them and they are of decent quality. I did not know they sold any that were not stainless.

By the way, I also ordered your DVD from him as well.

Quote:
On 2005-02-03 22:04, tabman wrote:
Bill Wells will tell you that we were part of the Scotty York knife team and in fact sourced them and arranged for their initial manufacture. They were put together by Providence Knife Co. who is now out of business due to the influx of cheap third world knives. I still have several sets of them around the shop here. $300 on ebay huh!!! that's a lot of dough for a set of $20 knives!!! Wow!! My favorites are the old Merrill knives though.
-=tab


Bill,
I collect tactical knives and switch-blades. I have over 77 currently. I realized that it would be fun to also get various sets of CC knives as well.

For the most part the knives used for CC knives are poor quality, inexpensive knives. A decent pocket knife from Puma or Buck or spyderco, or ... ( you get the idea) would probably start in the $25 to $30 range. It would be made of a good quality steel and all the parts would fit together tightly with no gaps where the scales met the bolsters.

I am looking at acquiring some of the classic sets that may still be around at reasonable prices. The two Scotty York sets totaling eight knives went for $305 on e-bay. I was not prepared to go that high. It works out to about $38.18 per knife. Most of Joe Mogar's knives are between $20-30. A set of eight would be approx $160 to $240. That does not include his special "high end" Bone knives. I was prepared to go up to $250 ($31.25 per knife) for what I thought would be a nice collectable to own.

Is this wrong??

I had a set of Merrill’s when I was in High school. I still have one left. It is missing the lower Bolsters but the scales are intact and the blade is in good shape. I am looking for a set of Merrill’s as well. The set that went on E-bay for $75 may have been a great bargain. How do you price these things? They will only become less common, therefore less available. How desirable are they? How does one calculate the worth of a rarity?

Thanks for listening (reading)
Bruce


I had a nice set of Merrill's when I was in high school (we won't discuss what happend to them) I still have one of them, but, it is missing the bottom Bolster on both sides.

I
A.K.A. Jay The Magician
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tabman
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Quote:
On 2005-02-04 18:59, fccfp wrote: I had a nice set of Merrill's when I was in high school (we won't discuss what happend to them) I still have one of them, but, it is missing the bottom Bolster on both sides.


At one point I had one of the Merrill's that was green on one side and was split white/green on the other side for the partial color change move. It was a sweet variation. One of the penalties of getting older, not being able to remember as much and for the life of me I cant remember what happened to it as I still have the others.

The thing I like the best about the Merrills is their size and shape. You can do a lot of the cigarette moves with them as they're about the size of a king sized cigarette. At one point in the past Keith Clark popularized cigarette magic. Everybody smoked (I don't anymore) but a lot of the sleight of hand from the cigs can be moved to the Merrill knives.

-=tab
...Your professional woodworking and "tender" loving care in the products you make, make the wait worthwhile. Thanks for all you do...

http://Sefalaljia.com
fccfp
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NJ
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Tabman,
Have you tried Cig moves w/Mogars? They seem to be about the same size. I was never a smoker, but learned the moves because evry where I went in those days was smoking. Up until sometime in the 70's I think you could count on several people having a lit cig at a show. Now? fuhgedaboutit.

Any way, I have modified an old lit cig p**l to hold a knife. Works well and drives even those in the know crazy.
A.K.A. Jay The Magician
www.jaythemagician.com
cataquet
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Tabman, I too adore the Merrill knives. My 3 knife set was given to me by Peter Kane, and when I started to develop a routine that needed additional knives, I was lucky enough to find knives that were the perfect size and shape (identical to the Merrill knives). However, the inlays on these knifes were terrible (clear plastic with colored backing) so I had to remove these inlays and replaced them with solid acrylic pieces. As you know, if you find a knife that manipulates well, you can (with very little effort) turn them into CC knives. So, it's worth looking around in shops... I seem to remember that Scotty York (?) at one time used to lecture on a CC swiss army knife. These don't manipulate well, but they are a "common" object.
Harold Cataquet
Bill Wells
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Quote:
On 2005-02-04 18:12, tabman wrote:

The photo behind my head is one of the favorite things I collected while I was on the IBM convention trail with you. It's a photo from Okito's collection of a magicians' convention in Chicago back in his day. It's got a lot of the heavy hitters of magicdom in it with him. Can you id these men???



I can ID some of them - From left to right - Bert Allerton, Jean Hugard, John Braun, don't know this guy, Okito, Jack Qwynne (in back), I know this next fellow but can't think of his name at the moment, and Harlan Tarbell. The others I don't know.
Bill Wells
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Quote:
On 2005-02-04 18:59, fccfp wrote:
Bill,
I collect tactical knives and switch-blades. I have over 77 currently. I realized that it would be fun to also get various sets of CC knives as well.

For the most part the knives used for CC knives are poor quality, inexpensive knives. A decent pocket knife from Puma or Buck or spyderco, or ... ( you get the idea) would probably start in the $25 to $30 range. It would be made of a good quality steel and all the parts would fit together tightly with no gaps where the scales met the bolsters.

I am looking at acquiring some of the classic sets that may still be around at reasonable prices. The two Scotty York sets totaling eight knives went for $305 on e-bay. I was not prepared to go that high. It works out to about $38.18 per knife. Most of Joe Mogar's knives are between $20-30. A set of eight would be approx $160 to $240. That does not include his special "high end" Bone knives. I was prepared to go up to $250 ($31.25 per knife) for what I thought would be a nice collectable to own.

Is this wrong??

I had a set of Merrill’s when I was in High school. I still have one left. It is missing the lower Bolsters but the scales are intact and the blade is in good shape. I am looking for a set of Merrill’s as well. The set that went on E-bay for $75 may have been a great bargain. How do you price these things? They will only become less common, therefore less available. How desirable are they? How does one calculate the worth of a rarity?



Bruce -

I am surprised that anyone would pay that much money for a set of color changing knieves. However, the price anyone pays for something like that is dependend on how much they have to spend and how much they want something. If they are being purchased to be part of a collection, that is one thing. If someone wants a set of good color changing knives, I would go knife hunting and find myself a knife that I liked handling and hope that the style came in several handle styles. I would then buy a half dozen of them and make my own color changing knives. You could certainly have a set of high quality "real" knives for less than the CC sets selling on EBay.

You are correct that many of the CC knife sets look like and are cheap knives. I probably have most of them, Merrill, Mogar, York, and a bunch of others including some custom ones such as a set made of Swiss Army knives. One of the reasons I like the Sanders knives is that they don't look cheap.

Frankly, I would avoid Ebay and contact some of the used magic folks and tell them to let you know if they find any CC knife sets in magic estates they buy.

If you are interested in CC knives (and other things magic) Be sure to check Doug Atkinson's fabulous website http://magicref.tripod.com/magref/artknife.htm There is also an excellent CC knife bibliography there as well.

Bill
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