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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You are getting sleepy...very sleepy... » » Dave Elman Instant Hypnosis (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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giggalo183
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Anyone ever heard of the method used by Dave Elman, for a quick induction into a hypnosis state. Im thinking of buying a video of his on it, and i want to know if it really is what it claims to be. Any info wil be appreciated.
Peter695
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Yes, who made the tape?

What do you want to do with an instant or rapid induction? -What are your expectations?

Do you have any experience using hypnosis?

The classic "Elman induction" is less than 4 minutes long and might serve you better as the rapid and instant inductions that I'm familiar with, including Elman's, require timing and confidence. I'm not saying you couldn't master it. Just that the more "regular" methods might be the place to start.


Peter
Luke Kerr
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Quote:
On 2002-09-18 18:23, giggalo183 wrote:
Anyone ever heard of the method used by Dave Elman, for a quick induction into a hypnosis state. Im thinking of buying a video of his on it, and i want to know if it really is what it claims to be. Any info wil be appreciated.

Yes,but i think it needs a lot of practice to work.
For example he ask you to fix your eyes instead waiting that it happens naturally and this cut the time needed.
Allen Gittelson
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There are many methods to achieve a rapid hypnotic induction. I don't know what specific methods Dave Elman may use.

In thoughts,
Allen
openatlast
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Understand hypnosis by reading "They Call It Hypnosis" & "Encyclopedia of Stage Hypnosis". More often then not, videos are lacking sufficient background info and explanation to prove usefull. This may be an exception, but I doubt it.
shrink
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From what I know about Elman his rapid technique is a hit or miss technique that works in situations where a rapid induction would be useful in a therapy context. For example if someone is suffering from burns.

They can either do it or not. Its not really suitable for stage work so any of his videos wouldn't be recommended for that purpose. More useful for doctors and dentists.
Peter695
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Not to argue with you shrink, it's sort of like a "trick" and just as someone says: "It sucks", someone else figures out another angle.

Wendi does a great job of using it onstage impressively. She starts the show with an induction and then during the show emerges a participant. (For a minute or two after someone emerges, they are still hypnotized). She'll emerge them, walk away, walk back, give 'em a yank and loudly command them to sleep and down they go.

I know what you mean, though. It probably wouldn't be my first choice as a stage induction.


Peter

(Edit) Here's a link to the classic Elman induction: http://www.omnihypnosis.com/dave-art.htm

My bad. On review, Wendi does an instant induction on stage, but it has nothing to do with Elman or his technique.
Dr Omni
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Dave Elman was a stage hypnotist who later got into therapeutic hypnosis. Although he was not a doctor himself, he developed a course for doctors, dentists, etc, on the use of hypnosis for medical and therapeutic purposes. The book to read is Dave Elman, "Hypnotherapy", which is drawn up from transcripts of his seminars to doctors and dentists. (Its original title was "Findings in Hypnosis".)

Elman's classic trance induction is direct, rapid and authoritarian. It is especially well suited for "authority figures" such as doctors of medicine, as patients are generally used to doing what the doctor says without too much questioning. It is also used by hypnotherapists who are not doctors of medicine.

Some variant of the Elman induction *could* be used in stage hypnosis, as the stage hypnotist is (at least for the duration of the show) an authority figure.
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The Bear
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I agree with Dr. Omni that the Elman induction relies upon an authoritarian approach, as outlined in his "Hypnotherapy" book.

This particular induction is also explained in detail, with additional notes and guidance, in the ebook "True Hypnotism", available for download from http://www.onlineoriginals.com
It costs GBP 6.00 (approx. $9). The author is an Elman fan, and has plenty of other interesting detail regarding hypnotic theory and history, so I think it's a bargain buy.
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shrink
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Quote:
On 2002-09-18 20:19, Peter695 wrote:
Not to argue with you shrink, it's sort of like a "trick" and just as someone says: "It sucks", someone else figures out another angle.

Wendi does a great job of using it onstage impressively. She starts the show with an induction and then during the show emerges a participant. (For a minute or two after someone emerges, they are still hypnotized). She'll emerge them, walk away, walk back, give 'em a yank and loudly command them to sleep and down they go.

I know what you mean, though. It probably wouldn't be my first choice as a stage induction.


Peter




Im not saying Elman suck's it is a good technique. And the one im thinking about isn't the one where you yank someone's hand and yell sleep.

You also made the point that Wendy has already done an induction with the subjects......thats where the real technique happened. After you've done the induction everything else is just conditioning.

The Rapid technique he is famous for in his book is one where he hypnotises someone from the awake state in just a few seconds. It isn't a deep state of hypnosis its more like a distraction so dentist can work better with their patients or some one can get temporary pain relief from a burn while waiting for treatment for example. But not everyone can do what he saks them to in order to "enter" hypnosis. In fact Im sure he says somewhere in the book if you can't do it within 10 or 20 seconds move on to conventional methods without hypnosis. It was designed for busy Doctors, Dentists who don't have the time to do long inductions.

Of course I may be wrong and the video contains other techniques but that was the one he was famous for according to his book
"Hypnotherapy".

I'm not saying he sucks its just the techniques Ive read about and tried out are not siutable for stage work (on their own)...there are much better ones around.

I have took that technique and modified into very easy and quick way to teach self hypnosis. His book is a bit dated now but still worth reading.
dave_cane
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If you are doing hypnosis for a group of people who have never actually seen it done before don't really care how fast your induction is, they just become amazed at the fact that you have just hypnotised someone!

P.S. in a normal show, most of the spectators have never actually seen someone being hypnotised before!
sjdavison
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This sounds interesting. Naturally you would need to sell yourself before, so they 'buy you' as a hypnostist?

Iam thinking this would work very well after a few 'hypnotricks', to establish yourself. What do you think?

Simon
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MagicalPirate
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Hypnotist Gene Martin sells a set of DVD's teaching his modified version of the Dave Elman induction for Stage Hypnosis. I can attest to the fact that it works and works well as it is the induction I use. If you want the theory and background of why it works than read the common texts and then use these DVD's to learn a great induction. It is full of testing throughout so that you can determine who to keep while at the same time taking them deeper. The way he presents it takes away any resistance to being hypnotized as we are doing some relaxation exercises. I have them down and ready to perform in about 6 minutes including sending the ones I won't use back to their seats. Then I go down the line of awake subjects and rehypnotize with the handshake induction that I set up during the initial induction.
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Xtasy0
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Is this like the handshake induction? or completely different?
procyonrising
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The Elman is not a handshake-type induction nor a variation of it.

The Elman induction can be used for presentations, though it is often modified for pacing. While it is indeed a true "rapid" induction, it lacks the drama that instant inductions often have, the difference being the time it takes for the person you're working with to slip into trance.

Professionally, I have used a variation of the Elman for several years, but now have moved onto more instantaneous methods--which (for your reference) rely more upon the initial interaction (and less upon the "yanking" or yelling commonly seen in these types of inductions). So personally, I believe the Elman is a good thing for someone to learn; though, I'm not sure if you need an entire video on it. I'm sure a good book should be fine--it's a self-working induction.

I will add a nuance you may find useful; if you split the chairs into two sets, you can walk behind the participants while doing the induction, which should give you a stronger presence when presenting the induction before a group. (Stand in front while doing the re-induction phase, then move behind when you start counting.) If you choose to do this, think about tying the chairs together, since I've had people fall off from being unbalanced.
MagicalPirate
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Gene Martin's DVD set shows his modified version of the Dave Elman induction in 6 different situations and how he alters according to the conditions. On this alone it would not be 2 DVD's, however he includes 2 complete shows witht these inductions that provide the student with a lot of material to choose from in addition to that A to Z of skits in his book.

As far as staying in the chairs is concerned I simply state that they won't fall out of their chair no matter how relaxed they become. This is not the Dave Elman induction verbatim it is a variation of. He works a lot of places where the people don't want to participate and just came to be entertained not be the entertainment. He developed this so that he could make it work on everyone and keep everyone. When you only have 5 volunteers to start with you can't afford to lose any. At $39.00 investment I don't see you being able to go wrong.

Martin Smile
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mindmagic
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I'm a hypnotherapist and the Elman induction is my favourite method for most clients. You can find a good description of it in Ormond McGill's New Encyclopedia of Stage Hypnotism - he calls it the Relaxation Induction (it isn't really).

Barry
RickDangerous
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There is a "lecture" video out there from a guy called Banyan. He uses Elman's induction and a lot of other rapid inductions. I had great success with the techniques he describes
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Waters
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Gentlemen (and ladies),
I really am curious as to which Hypnosis institution (training) would be considered a "legit" and effective one for stage hypnosis training. I have seen the info for the "Stage Hypnosis Center". Is this the consensus? Do you more knowledgeable gentlemen agree (thanks for the info MagicalPirate). I don't want to short change my interest and training (or an audience), nor do I want to endanger myself with litigation. I have done the basic reading now... I have read Ormand McGill, and some of "TRANCE-formations" (Grinder, Bandler). I have also read some other basic texts like "Fun with Hypnosis" (Dr. Svengali,.)etc. I am looking for the next step. Any advice from greater minds please????
MagicalPirate
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You can get course work through Stage Hypnosis Center that was created by Keith Livingston. That course work has been approved by a recognized hypnosis group. You can also get it from Bill O'Connell and his course has been approved by the ABH for certification through their group as a Certified Hypnotherapist. If you want more information on this just PM me.

Martin Smile
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