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unilogo Veteran user Las Vegas , NV 359 Posts |
This has to deal with our art and the constant argument of...
is it alright to post naked pictures of people in a museum. Well that was sort of an analogy to were I am heading. Magic is without a doubt an art for me. I don't use it to "trick" people...well sub conciously I might.....I use magic as a way of arousing emotions from the espectators. I know about the reactions I could get using profanity and my question to you is TO use it or not? I think it is part of me. I am not always a nice kid, but mostly I am . Sometimes when I am performing I need the need to well say a "bad word" ...I am somehow mad. Which is a perfectly good emotion that just FITS the effect. I am trying to push the envelope here....its always scary. How would you guys ,fellow magicians(about me giving a new image to magicians that might not be "good"), take me saying a bad word in the middle of the show....heck MULTIPLE.....? I know the amazing jonathan has some seriously disturbing jokes...that I rather not post here... would you concider this a big deal? Any thoughts greatly appreciated. |
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rgranville Elite user Boston area 463 Posts |
I only have three things to say about profanity: Image, image, image. Don't ask whether you should use profanity, ask yourself what image you want to project. What kind of audience do you want to attract? What statement are you trying to make with your magic? If you have the answers to those questions, then deciding whether to use profanity should be a simple question to answer. Does it enhance or detract from the image you want? Does it encourage or repel the audiences you want?
:banana: |
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Mayo Loyal user WorymWood 211 Posts |
To me, I am against it, that could be due to the fact I am old fahshioned and believe there should be no cursing around a lady a child or anyman for that matter. You don't have to curse to show anger, many people can feel it when you are angry no need to act it. Depending on who you show for, some one in there fourites may take offense to it, someone in there twenties mite just get enthralled.
In the end it is up to you, but your image is on the line. That is just something to think about. I am not trying to shoot you down, I am just offering my feelings up to ya. Your friend, Mayo
"I love the night. It's the only time I feel really alive."
---Helen Chandler in the film "Dracula" (1931) "There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to l |
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Seance Elite user Talking on the other side with 427 Posts |
Profanity, to me, shows the limit of the user's vocabulary and is encountered all too often. If you want to stand out in today's crowd, DON'T use it...
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Clifford the Red Inner circle LA, California 1941 Posts |
I think it depends on the presentation and the audience. My feeling is it would be something rare and specialized. It might be more common if you are performing in a comedy club, one where profanity is normal. But in Bizarre? I'd have to really work at developing a routine where profanity would work. I'd rather develop a routine where magic happens.
Instead of cursing you might try silence in its place. A moment without words where the audience can feel the emotion can be much more powerful. Ultimately you are the mage. Does it really make sense for you to mirror normal people? Or should you react differently?
"The universe is full of magical things, waiting for our wits to grow sharper." Eden Philpotts
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13ofhearts New user Fayetteville, AR 21 Posts |
If you ask me, "bad" words are still just words. And they are just part of some people's vocabulary. These people use these words like you or I might use the words "and" or "salmon." If someone is really good at it, you don't even notice they are using them because it's just the way they talk. On the other hand, some people use these words for the sole purpose of shocking people. When these people use profanity, you can tell. It sounds pluged in and unnatural. The bottom line here is: be yourself, people can tell and people don't like a phoney.
Having said that... As preformers we are faced with having to deliver to our public what they want, and the fact is that some people don't like to hear bad words and will attack you or not hire you if you use them. Let me suggest this: make a script where you use profanity and one where you don't. Offer the option to your clients. That way, when you get to use your bad words, you'll know the audience won't stone you.
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. --Groucho Marx
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drwilson Inner circle Bar Harbor, ME 2191 Posts |
In the bizarre magick area we are more concerned with character than many other areas of the Café. Who is your character? Why would your character use profanity?
In my case, a snake-oil salesman trying to pass himself off as educated to a late-nineteenth-century audience would never use profanity. I might as well carry a cell phone. I also agree that dramatically, there are more effective ways to show anger rather than sounding like a drunk soccer fan. I don't have any moral objection to Saxon words, it is my first language, I grew up in a steel mill town. You just have to think about your character, your audience, and the most effective way of reaching them. Yours, Paul |
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unilogo Veteran user Las Vegas , NV 359 Posts |
ALl valid points guys!thanx....
Now it should be pointed out I have no "clients". I only have espectaors because I solely do magic for the art. I have no intentions of ever becoming a pro. But that doesn't take away from the fact I want to be a great magician/enterntainer/person. I do not treat my audience like 6 year olds, unless they are, in which case I would obviously not say it. I also never use profanity as the essence of my limited vocabulary. I use it because it does "strike" something on a person. IT is suppose to bring out those feelings.WE all know the feelings you get from a bad word.It would not sound unnatural in my opinion because as I said before....I do use bad words once in a while. Heck it might sound faker if I don't use em. Not saying I'm filthy mouth. I just use that in the case of an argument. I do get in arguments with myself and or the audience. Which is suppose to also give new feelings.It is nothing bad as of now. Everyone enjoy's them(arguments). However I have yet to use profanity. Yeah I guess bottom line is I better try it..... yes dr. wilson that's why I post most of my topics here altho they seem to fall under other categories. Bizarrist do seem to care for character much more...which is my main priority too. I do think it is the most effective way to reach em . In my form of expressing myself. I guess I'll just have to try. on a lighter note... haha....i used to play soccer and those drunken guys were hilarious..... image My image is not that of a drunken soccer guy....so I don't think I will be seen as one. I have a more laid back approach. I do look like an "outcast". So I don't think you know what "to" expect. The only way is to see my performance you know. it does look like a disorganized response..sorry...I was just giving answers to what I was asked her...it was a reflection.... again thank you all. |
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kaytracy Inner circle Central California 1793 Posts |
Well, the free speech, and FCC battle aside, the idea that one can only communicate strong emotions through the use of profanity, even in special circumstances, seems a bit silly to me. Now this is not to say that I have never uttered censorable words in MY life! (Prunes! I say) but I do agree, it is ALL about the image you want to put out there.
You must remember that a first impression is never given a second chance. On a one- on -one situation, you can gage a person's reaction to a word or turn of phrase, but for the innocent passerby who might overhear? You have left them with a first impression, and it might not be the one you would have preferred. You may think that No-one is that innocent, and you might be right, but people do make choices on many levels, yourself included! I find as I stack up those anniversaries of my birth, my way of looking at things has changed ...a lot! and I tend to be very gratful for the bridges I have NOT burned along the way!! Consider the following, a young man on a transit sytem conveyance- underwater,(BART Tunnel tube) people had no way to get very far away from him- obviously happy with his outcast/shock value appearance and demeaner (I was told he had orange and purple 8 inch spiked hair, among other things) was berating people loudly for not giving him money as he could not seem to get a job, "all the F**...ever saw was his hair and clothes, and not the real him." So, his choices? Be the "real" him, or the "shock" him, or decide which he really is and learn how to live with it...and was it easier to beg and berate, or try to really get a job and work. The choices of his audience (I consider him a performance artist) tell him to "get lost", or other phrase of your choice- Give him money to leave you alone/go away/stop his behavior(yeah right! anyone remember Pavlov?) or try to explalin that perhaps he should........ So again, I think it really comes down to who you are, and how you want to be seen. Self confidence is a good thing, but you still live in a world populated by others, and getting along is a very good survival skill! Choose your words and their use wisely. Kay
Kay and Tory
www.Bizarremagick.com |
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enriqueenriquez Inner circle New York 1287 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-02-08 16:23, unilogo wrote: I guess that if you are quoting somebody else in the course of your story, It may sound natural to use bad words. |
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Dr_Stephen_Midnight Inner circle SW Ohio, USA 1555 Posts |
I would definitely not have a problem with reading a passage from Ambrose Bierce's "The ***ed Thing" for a routine on invisible beasties.
Steve
Dr. Lao: "Do you know what wisdom is?"
Mike: "No." Dr. Lao: "Wise answer." |
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Josh Riel Inner circle of hell 1995 Posts |
This is ME speaking so the wise man would not read it..... But in my field (construction) the use of profanities, cuss words, is common enough to not be noticed by most, however in the sales end you'll find a guy who cusses like a sailor with the guy's will almost always seem replete with a preachers conscience in front of a consumer. Lets just say around the guy's I fit in, in a prude convention I fit in. You have to be selective about what you say in any situation, not only profanities, you don't want to speak well of the devil around a busload of nuns.
Never assume your audience is as liberal as you might be. But like I said, this is just me.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
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TGENTLE New user Birmingham, AL 86 Posts |
I agree with Mayo. You need to keep the sense of the audience in mind. At least forwarn them before they come to the performance that there may be some PG material. Then, make sure your "stuff" is strong and can back it up. Seems to me. audiences are less forgiving with blue acts (even at conventions), and can go down in flames in comparison to the G rated act.
Finally, I suggest rethinking the 'trick' decision. Audiences love to be tricked, They expect to be fooled. You CAN acomplish this and still manitain your objective by asserting a strong character and persona. You can trick them and remain true to your artistic role. Maybe I'm not sure of what you wish to achieve with your audience. do you charge a fee for your performance?, or is it done as an artistic endeavor? In anycase, choose yout goals wisely and go for it. Best of luck! tg |
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Mike Robbins Elite user Anchorage, Alaska 447 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-02-08 16:23, unilogo wrote: I submit that you do have clients. Each person who watches (or better yet participates) in your show is investing something more precious that money - their time. As far as blue language - have at it if it fits your character. It sounds to me that you're not too worried about making everyone happy and you don't have to try to be mainstream to make a living, so why not follow your own artistic direction? If it's consistent in your character and scripting, then I believe it's appropriate.
The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.
Shakespeare |
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sinnead zenun Elite user Mt. Makiling 408 Posts |
It might depend as well to the story you're telling or routine.
just like story telling, what you say and how you say it is as important as how you act it. playing a part of a madman or serial killer you may use profanity to enhance the effect or story. or a witch doctor saying curses and spell to someone he hates most. but then again you must assessed your audience. and make sure the use of profanity is justifiable to what you are performing or acting. |
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unilogo Veteran user Las Vegas , NV 359 Posts |
WEll guys thanks for the replies...
as always ANY help is greatly appreciated.Mike you do have a point there with the time issue. However it is pretty funny really.....I tend to do magic for people who seem BORED ;Sitting down in a bus,waiting in a line, seem lonely etc... I am not to say I don't do it for people who are busy cause I am not gonna lie I do once in a while but these are the people I most do magic too("bored"). Or I might just get asked to do some magic...in which case you obviously know they are bored or I am getting into trouble.Ha(laugh for last statement not whole paragraph...its pretty serious.) I must add in the bottom of my heart I choose the words as I feel wisely too. I am not saying I add a bad word every five seconds for shock value. I do it when I BELIEVE I need to. You know enrique its incredible you auctually hit it. I do most often use it with quotes. Or quotes I make up to not offend em as much. Yeah its kind of wrong but I know they will get more mad if I say it than an annonymous person that doesn't exist. Again thank you all ...all your writing makes me reflect. Thanks. |
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Black Hart Elite user Scottish Highlands 475 Posts |
I do not swear. I can not imagine that any of my bookers would be very pleased if they booked me for their event and I went around uttering bad language at their guests.
If by chance I was booked to work at a conference for 'The British Society for the Promotion of Bad Language', I would still NOT swear. If I am ever in the company of people who do swear, I still do not. As far as I am aware I have never lost a booking through NOT swearing. I do however know of performers who have been complained about because they did swear. I think that in general the corporate market is not a venue where bad language has a place. Black Hart
Black Artefacts, manufacturer and dealer of weird, bizarre and psychic magic: www.blackhart.co.uk
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Curseing, swearing, profanity, obsenity, foul language, sexually explicit language, heresy, vulgarity....
When you know the distinctions you can make better choices.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Eight Spades Elite user Ohio (northwest) 482 Posts |
I think it's all about your own judgement of your surroundings. For example, I never swear while doing magic unless it's for peers that already have shown they're comfortable with using that kind of language. These situations don't come up very often because I'm rarely doing magic for anyone my age at a paid peformance.
If swearing is naturally a part of your everyday language, just try and remember that during performance you probably aren't playing your everday self. -Christian
"Tricks are only the crude residue from which the lifeblood of magic has been drained." -S.H. Sharpe
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Leland Stone Inner circle 1204 Posts |
Hiya, Josh:
Your point about "fitting in" with the guys is well-taken. Like you, my 'day job' is in construction, and it doesn't take long for my vocabulary to become...'contextual,' to a certain degree. Being something of a linguistic snob, I don't often use gutter-speak, but it does come more easily when accompanied by nail guns and chop saws... Quite apart from the issue of vulgarity, however, is an annoying idiomatic quirk that sticks even after leaving the job site: Overuse of the word "dude," usually in a condescending tone of voice; i.e., as a snynonym for 'moron.' Sincerely, Leland Edward Stone |
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