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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre! » » Profanity » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Winks
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My grandfather always told me that a gentleman does not need to use either a profanity or a vulgarity (Jonathan Townsend really hit the nail on the head about needing to understand the English language sufficiently to know the differences). A gentleman is intelligent enough that he has command of the language to communicate his point without resorting to either shock or offensive words. I have always found that to hold true. And before anyone thinks my grandfather, who died in 1965, was some holier than thou saint, he was a brakeman on the NYC for over 40 years. He just felt there was something to manners and refined speech.

One further thought - Gazzo, the world renowned street magician, was the guest lecturer at our SAM meeting last night. In his act, he really pushed the envelope in terms of being risque and "insulting" in his humor during his act. But, he never used any profanities or vulgarities - not once. Someone asked him about that afterwords. His reply was that he never had to worry about offending someone that way - because every person he offended meant less pay for him.
bonehead
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Quote:
On 2005-02-17 14:33, Winks wrote:
being risque and "insulting" in his humor during his act


Insulting or sarcastic? I've found his humor to almost pure sarcasm, not insulting. People who can't handle that type of sarcastic based humor often confuse it for something else (not implying you are).

Now, I've seen Jay Sankey be downright punishing to a person who was asking too many questions. No sarcasm, just a pure offensive verbal assualt on the guy.
Winks
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I equate "insulting" with sarcastic. And Gazzo did make it very plain that you have to measure your audience and set limits for yourself. As far as Sankey - well, let's say he isn't one of my favorites. I gravitate more to Bill Malone, Richard Osterlind, and JOhn Carney. If I wish to be berated, insulted, or verbally assaulted, I will call my ex wife.
bonehead
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On 2005-02-17 19:56, Winks wrote:
If I wish to be berated, insulted, or verbally assaulted, I will call my ex wife.


Amen, brother.

I like most all of the humor. I love to see a crowd pushed to the edge and brought back in. It's like watching a master artist paint a picture. They push them right to the edge and then bring them back in, and leave the crowd loving them. I also love to see people like Bill Malone, Aldo, etc. Funny, funny guys.
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2005-02-17 14:33, Winks wrote:
One further thought - Gazzo, the world renowned street magician, was the guest lecturer at our SAM meeting last night. In his act, he really pushed the envelope in terms of being risque and "insulting" in his humor during his act. But, he never used any profanities or vulgarities - not once. Someone asked him about that afterwords. His reply was that he never had to worry about offending someone that way - because every person he offended meant less pay for him.


That's interesting, because Gazzo certainly did when he worked Scarborough Faire. Perhaps you aren't aware of what constitutes vulgar language. Asking a woman to feel your balls would be considered vulgar by some -- even in the context of a cups and balls routine.
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Winks
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He avoided almost all such references - I can only think of one instance. We had a lot of kids present and I think that had an influence. It was also held in a restaurant.
bonehead
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On 2005-02-18 02:05, Bill Palmer wrote:
Asking a woman to feel your balls would be considered vulgar by some -- even in the context of a cups and balls routine.



As opposed to asking a 10 year old girl "how many balls do you have in your hand? Two?" during a sponge ball routine? I find that sort of routine FAR FAR more offensive than using puns with adult women.
Mystician
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Easy guys, let's not start a flame war over this.
My only comment on this is, if it fits the part, AND your environment, do whatever.
If it's part of your normally expected persona to say, "oh s**t !!" when generally surprised or shocked, and you want to convey that emotion during an effect, you probably ought to go ahead and do it to maintain the authenticity of the moment. Don't feel boxed in to behave like a 70 year old gentlemen from the victorian era if you're a 20 year old hangin' out wit your homies. Keep it real !
OTOH, If it's your normally expected persona to say that in front of 7 year olds, then you have other problems besides defining magic roles.
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Nyama Possessor
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THANK YOU MYSTICIAN......that is exactly my point! I don't understand what the big deal is with swearing (unless in front of children, so yes I have standards & I agree that there is a time & place for swearing) But come on people, a four letter word is just that.....a four letter word......I understand what the word means, and everything it represents, but if we want to be honest with ourselves, everything swears mean aren't really that bad & some of them are just slang words for what we humans do naturally. Why do some continue to act like this all of a sudden makes it bad.....i wonder why the words "intercourse" or "diarrhea" aren't looked down upon? All in All, it all boils down to the same meaning! So pick you spelling and like mystician said "KEEP IT REAL" and that exactly what I'm doing. I will end this by saying one last thing, to each his own! & what I said has NOTHING to do with intellegence.

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Winks
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If you wish to swear, go ahead. It is interesting that you take the nom de plume Krossbearer, but you certainly do not think or act or talk as the original Crossbearer did. And, yes, I am a Christian, and that does color how I see things. Christians just do not WILLFULLY talk in that fashion. At least not if they actually live their faith. I also come from an era where polite society excluded offensive language. The world, as Stephen King puts it, has moved on. I haven't and don't anticipate doing so. I will leave the discussion at this point, so you may have at me and my old fashioned views in whatever manner you all wish.
fizbin
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Using vulgar language is a sign of weakness. Weakness in vocabulary, in self-control, in the power to impress or influence your audience. Let's face it, if you truly were angry and also had the power to do something about it, you would not cuss, you would act. Cussing "just because" is ignorance.

In my opinion, when a magician swears, he has just proved that he has no magic in him/her. He is powerless.

Even if the performer claims to have no magical ability, when he utters a vulgarity, he has just broken any suspense of belief that the audience was experiencing. It is certainly not professional. I agree with Black Hart in that I have never used profanity, or crude humor, and have never lost a client. I know a few fellow magicians who do use it, and they have lost the client...
"All For Wonder..."
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Jonathan Townsend
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Projecting one's inflexible opinions upon others is usually a sign of unresolved inner issues.

Most of save the foul language for when it might be useful... which is not so often in my experience, though perhaps in other places for other people it can be a social lubricant or like jousting or 'dozens' or 'vogueing' etc.

Whatever splinters you have in your eyes are your own and up to you to manage. My boards don't often let me see well enough to even make suggestions for others. Most helpful suggestions offered are usually in response to requests. Again, that's just my experience.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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