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Austria->Vienna
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Ok I need to explain Something: first of all I do not want anyone to reveal any secrets in this tread. Second, I do want to make myself clear that I'm only asking for Information. I looked thru this part of the board and I got until page 11 yet.

There are some general Questions that I really need to get ansywered before thinking about getting doves:
1.) What Races of Doves are preferred by magicans and why?
2.) How much space do they need(a cage question)?
3.) What do they basically like to eat?
4.) What food cold be dangerous to them
5.) Do they need something special in theyr cages?
6.) I heard that they are bad on building nests. So I want to know if they could do
it themselves and what material is preferred/needed for (I saw in some toy stores some Hamster cotton. Does anything similar exist for birds?
7.) How long are they expected to live?
8.) Any suggestions on Dvd's books or websites containing further information?
9.) How much do you need to train them and how old should they be....
10.) What training menthods are accepted by birds best?
11.) any useful tricks and tips?(not magic... just for the animails?)
12.) About male/female doves, is there a way to not have them getting children?
13.) I heard females are more quiet. Is that true?
14.) Do magicans Prefer female or male doves?
15.) Should they be held as singular birds or do you need to have a minimum of two birds?(In the cage?)

I'm very thankful for every piece of information you pass onto me because I do not want to have birds that are unlucky and I want to try to skip the basic mistakes.
Now why am I asking? Because I care and I know that doves are not props. They are living animals.

Why the bad English? Because I'm actually speak German and I just use English a bit

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Luke Sherratt
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The Isle Of Wight, England
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You need to check out the Dove Hotline my friend almost every question you have is answered there go to this address http://www.magicauction.com/DoveHotline/DoveHotline.html it is run by Tony Clark who is one of the best dove workers in the world. His videos are great get them if you are intrested in doves. The preffered breed of dove is called a Java dove. And as for male or female birds it is down to personal preference, I can't tell which are the "Better". Bob Sanders who is on the boards is a very very knowledgable person on doves, as is Dave Scribner and Also so Sperris you might want to talk to those guys if you don't find what you are looking for on Dove Hotline.

Best Wishes,

Luke
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Dave Scribner
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Signature, basically you have asked for an instructional DVD reference. To answer all of these questions, most of which have been addressed already in this forum, would take quite a bit of space and time.

I'll try to give you some brief answers but the best thing to do is to buy a few DVD's or books. Marian Chavez Encyclopedia of Dove Magic, Tony Clark Unmasked 1 and 2 and Andy Amx doves 101 are excellent sources to begin with.

Space: My smallest cage is 24"x24"x30" and is suitable for 2 birds. You need to leave room for them to spread and exercise their wings in the cage.

Food: Dove mix, or wild birdseed is good.

Treats: Frozen peas, apple, leaf lettuce, peanut butter, millet, mealworms are good.

Nesting: Have, strips of paper, commercial nesting material. Provide a bowl of small container for the nest.

Life Span: varies on location and how you treat them. Some live as little as a few years while others last for 20 or more.

Training: Get the resources I've mentioned. Most use the same basic method. You have to gain their confidence first by handling them each day and getting them to know you won't hurt them. Making them feel comfortable is the most important training feature to accomplish. It affects the toss out and return effect and also how they react after a production.

Eggs: there is no way to stop them from laying eggs. If you don't want babies, then just destroy the egg when it is layed. Females will product eggs even if there is no male present, they will just not be fertile.

Noise: doves are noisy, however males are louder than the females as they do most of the cooing. A single bird or two is not bad, but if you get as many as Bob Sanders, Wakanda, and I do, then you may want to consider housing them outside in a protected aviary.

Male or Female: I use both but the general opinion of many dove workers is that females are better suited. It's a matter of choice and personal preference.

Hope this gets you thinking. You need to do as much research as possible before jumping into our world. It is a time consuming phase of magic and requires a lot of dedication. They are animals and not props and how you treat them off stage will be evident when you perform.
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Moonmagick
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Las Vegas
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As far as the sex is concerned...Females are better in dove bags and males are better on invisibles. The biggest, strongest males, like the alpha males work great on invisibles, Females don't like them too much, they can't handle having something strapped around their body, something to do with their biological function (eggs etc...) They won't in most cases even stand up. Anyway, you should know that if a female is laying eggs, you should never use her in a show and when handling her, never squeeze her too tight. If she has an egg in her, it could break inside and this could kill her. I have seen this happen many times unfortunately. So for that reason, females can be difficult especially when you have to work everynight, in which case it's best to have back ups. Females also make better flyers from my experience. They have better homing instincts, males like to wander....makes sense.

Luna
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Dave Scribner
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Luna made a good point about the females with eggs during the performance. It's not 100% guaranteed but before I start loading a female dove, I always run my finger down it's breast from neck to leg. Just below the breast bone split, if there is an egg, you'll find a small lump which is the egg. If I find that, I use a substitute for that performance.

BTW Luna, was that a sly sexist remark about males wandering? Smile
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LarryTaylor
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Miamisburg Ohio
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When feeding your doves do not forget to give them some grit, doves eat their seeds whole, unlike hooked bill birds like parrots and cockateels, so the doves need a grit to digest the seed. Start slow with maybe one or 2 birds. I hope you will have as much enjoyment as I have had working with doves.
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Moonmagick
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ME...sexist? NEVER.....Just having a little fun guys Smile
Luna
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Crispy
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Male doves having a tendency to wander? Well, it's because they won't stop and ask for directions.

Cris
Dave Scribner
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Good one Chris.
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Is it possible to be having a single dove or must they be together with other doves?
Can I put two male doves together in a cage?
Dave Scribner
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You can have only one dove. I know many magicians that keep one. Never put two males in the same cage. Males are very territorial and will fight for ownership.
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OK as it seems I'll take one male dove for the beginning (nearly done with searching for good tips n tricks and tomorrow I'll get the Encylopedia of Dove Magic.)
Beth
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Is there anyway without doing extensive testing to know if you have males or females? I have two new doves. When I bought them I was told that one was a male and one was a female. They said they laid eggs but the eggs never hatched. Based on this I thought they were probably both females. However, I have had them a year and they have never laid an egg. They seemed to get along fairly well, but I'm confused. What do you think? 2 males?
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Moonmagick
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The males always coo and do this up and down ritual dance and the female coo with their butts in the air and they flick their wind tips. This is typical behavior but there are exceptions. I have seen males coo with their butts in the air too so I dunno what that would means? DON'T ASK! Smile The females are also slightly smaller in the head and neck area and if they are laying eggs but not hatching or sitting on them then there is no male to fertilize her so you probably have two females. If they were both males, they would be fighting each other for territory.
Luna
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Beth
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Well I am thinking that they are 2 males, but oddly enough they don't fight and seem to be really lovey with each other lol. They were raised together so maybe that is why.
"All creative art is magic, is evocation of the unseen in forms persuasive,enlightening, familar, and surprising."
Bob Sanders
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Hello Beth,

If you got them around Branson, you could well have relatives of my doves. I worked out of Fayetteville, Arkansas for years.

There is no problem with all males in a cage as long as they are not "added" to a male's cage where he is tops. The usual trick is to put all the males into a new cage at the same time together. (Moving the cage about 6' any direction except up and down also works.) That way it is new to all and there is no boss on board. There are times when I have even had to work with all males (six at a time). The only problem is noise, but the audience loves that too!

Sexing doves in the lab costs more than it's worth. I still use trial and error. But you can walk into a pen of doves and pick any two birds. Odds are 50/50 you have a male and female if the birds a evenly distributed. If you get four eggs, you have two females. If both coo and do "push-ups", you probably have two males. There are only two ways to get it wrong: two males or two females. Once paired, spend your time building cages. Once the pair starts setting, the one that spends the night on the eggs is the female. Mark them and you are set so that the pairs always get put back together at home. I prefer to use numbered colored plastic bands. I put the same number on both birds. However, males have the band on the left leg and females have them on the right. Then you are through with that part for about a dozen years.

Enjoy your birds!

Bob
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Dave Scribner
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Beth, here's another method of telling the sex of your bird and again it isn't always a guarantee. Hold the bird in one hand and gently run your finger down it's breast from the beak to just before it's stomach. Part way down the neck, you should feel a breast bone. As you approach the stomach area, if you feel the bone split somewhat like a wish bone, you probably have female. The females require more room in that area to hold an egg.

I do have a foolproof method however that seems to work for me. Just name your bird. If I name the bird Pete, it always turns out to be Petricia. Alex became Alexus, and Michelle turned out to be Mike. Smile
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Bob Sanders
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Dave's naming method always works. Maxwell our rabbit is now Maxine.

Bob
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Beth
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Missouri
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Hmmmmm maybe it's the one wearing lipstick Smile
"All creative art is magic, is evocation of the unseen in forms persuasive,enlightening, familar, and surprising."
magicman414
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Do the doves coo when they are let's say, in a dove bag or in dove sensation?
Please help, I'm trying to do research before I buy 8.
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