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fengenroll
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I have heard that some people achieve great recognition by being able to memorize a shuffled deck. I don't belive it's all IQ, so I hope there are some "magic" technique behind it..?
I hope it's fairly easy to master, if it is, please direct me to a source.
Thanks!

F.
Daegs
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Well, how fast are you talking?

If you just want to learn a shuffled deck over the course of weeks, it is fairly easy to learn(not master).


If you are talking about looking at a fairly shuffled deck in front of an audience and then naming the card for each position, well that is a whole other story...

Most of the people do this legitly, they actually memorize the deck, and it is extremely difficult to memorize one in a short enough period of time to keep an audience intrested...


Look into memory peg systems, because that is probably the best way to go these days...
ithomson
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Fengenroll

Memory techniques abound, and have been around for thousands of years. They work perfectly for cards, particularly the Peg (mentioned by Daegs).

Simon Aronson's "Bound To Please" contains not only the Aronson stack, but also a Peg memory system for learning it. I think Hugard and Braue's "Encyclopedia of Card Tricks" has a Peg system for learning the Nikola stack.

For an excellent guide to memory systems, try Harry Lorayne's "The Complete Guide to Memory Mastery". I had the earlier incarnations of this work and that's how I first started using a Peg system for playing cards.

Another system is taught in Juan Tamariz's "Mnemonica". Although this encyclopedia uses his own stack as a basis, the learning techniques could be applied to any stack (as could very many of the wonderful effects included within).

Finally, there are "calculated" decks where you can work out mathematically where a card is in the stack. Bert Harding's and Boris Wild's spring to mind. In my experience these start off being clumsy, but then speed up dramatically with use.

Mark Farrar (who is a member of the Café and a memorised deck aficionado) has a set of useful memory training links at: http://www.markfarrar.co.uk/mnelnk01.htm.

Hope that helps.

Ian
Memo
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I dislike Harry Lorayne stuff very much.
But there are several books from different authors dealing with memorizing techniques.

For example here in the board those topics are discused in "penny for your thoughts". One example: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......5&13

It tool me 6 month of regular training (once or twice a day) to be able to memorize the order of a shuffeled deck under 100 seconds.

Now I can do it under 35 seconds on my better tries. The world record is hold by Andi Bell with 32 seconds. Everything meant for a 52 cards deck without jokers.
"There have been many claims by magicans and mentalists to the invention of mnemonics; some of the claimants have been world-famous performers - and none of them have a right to their claims!" - Corinda
ziatro
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Probably one of the best books on memory systems you can buy is "Use Your Perfect Memory" by Tony Buzan.
For more info, try this link

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0......-5009762
Memo
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Hi!

I´d like to comment my sentence:
"I dislike Harry Lorayne stuff very much."

I can not speak about everything he did of course. English is just a foreign language for me, so I had to translate, what I´ve meant and did this not really well in this case.

I have got his books "Super Memory - Super Student" and "The Memory Book". They are not bad, but neither the best. That is my opinion. He explains all major techniques but does not goes further into specialities. If you don´t know memorizing techniques at all, the books will help you greatly. But many other books can do that, too. There is a lot garabge on market in the field of memory-books. Loraynes books do not count into that. But they are neither the best available.

But what I really dislike is Mr. Loraynes behaivior in some things. I just asked him a question via e-mail but got insulted from him or his assistant shortly afterwards. He calls all (!) other authors of memory books thieves.

I quote someone else (translated from German): "Mr. Lorayne does not treat his readers seriously. He treats them as small childs, who should be happy that anyone shows them nice stuff."

He does not mention his sources in his books, he even claimed to be the inventor of some techniques and all the others stole from him - even if those techniques exist for 2 thousand years.

Of course, I can not make any comments about his magic stuff, because I just don´t know it.

Best regards to everyone!
Boris
"There have been many claims by magicans and mentalists to the invention of mnemonics; some of the claimants have been world-famous performers - and none of them have a right to their claims!" - Corinda
fengenroll
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Thanks for the great help guys!!! Tons of valuable recources for me to study.

F.
Logan Five
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Anything by Tony Buzan is good stuff..I really like his mind map and speed reading books.
Self concept is destiny..
slangers
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Fangenroll where did you get that picture? that's the danish prime minister, not you. especially not if you live in NYC.
Elliott Hodges
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I have got some good reactions from this version.
glimpse the bottom card, operate a bottom glide and start to deal cards off the bottom tellin the spectator they can stop you any time and you will name the next card before turning it face up.
at this point you bring the glided card out, glimpse the next bottom card while they are marvelling at your amzing memory and continue!
Unknown419
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Hey Memo I know what you mean regarding Harry Lorayne’s attitude, I felt it once before many years ago when I approached him in the late 80’s with Sal about helping me with his memory system. He just told us to by his book and spoke as if he was all that and a bag of chips, which to me was rude but hey I had to put an H on my chest and handle it and now I’m still searching for answers of which I see that you have the answer to. You Can Remember a Deck of Shuffled Cards in order in about 35 seconds.

Note: To any readers thinking that I dislike Harry this is not true, I just speak the facts. He’s still a genius at what he does but he needs an attitude adjustment when speaking to people like I do at times when writing to people. This is why I fooled him with my stripper deck and left him standing there with Doug Edwards as he asked how. Pay back is a b****, I did show Doug later on.

Back To My Question

Memo my goal is to remember a deck of cards in order in about the same amount of time that you do. Fifty-Two seconds would be my goal if you help me. I’m trying so many systems that seems to be doing okay but I know for a fact that those who excel in particular areas like you and myself finally come to the conclusion of the best way of doing something and this is one of the reasons why you probably don’t like the Harry Lorayne’s System; because you’ve found a better way.

I wish to learn what technique to practice and how to practice so that I can specifically direct my attention to the correct way of practicing and learning how to remember playing cards in order.

What I’ve Learn From You So Far

1. That you’re one of best in the world or very close to being the best. {I don’t blow smoke}
2. That this is not a trick and it will take much practice and long hours to learn it efficiently.
3. You have a better way of studying then using Harry Lorayne’s System
4. You have friends that do this and you follow and study it like a job or hobby.
5. You’ve won championships and are not too far behind the best in the world.
6. You’ve studied the origination of this memory technique.
7. You demonstrate and can remember 100 digits in about a minute.
8. You know who can do what and who can’t.
9. You don’t like just remembering persons only because it confuses you to easily. {This is one of the problems that I’m having at the moment}
10. If a person study hard like you he probably will be achieving his goal in about 6 months and with more practice get to remember cards down to about 35 sec.
11. I have to practice at least once or twice a day.
12. Andy Bell holds the world record.
13. There are better memorizing techniques out there but you have to be directed to them from someone who knows.

All I want to remember is playing cards or the numeric number of all cards and in what position they are in; suit does not matter in this variant.

At the moment up to remembering 7 to 8 cards in order. My cards are persons and in another system things: I’m having the same problem as you are. I will try to find this system (Dominic) that you use and combine people with action but this will take me in an entirely another direction. This is what’s so time consuming to me, I want to know which way to go and how to study.


Would you please help me?


Wanna-Be-Student

Doc
Partizan
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I find that Dominics system works for him as he meets most of the people he uses.
You will have problems with that system and should substitute your own cues.

Example. You like football and follow the leages! Use your familiarity and enjoyment of that subject as the base of your cue system.
I taught a kid a fast memory system with pokemon cards. The kid knew all of the monsters and their numbers, so I helped build a memory structure around it.

I have a friend that is into cars. I showed him how he could represent things using cars as a base.


Remember. What is taught in memory books is a rough outline. You must use the most striking, interesting and comfortable hooks for YOU.
"You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus."
- Mark Twain
Memo
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What is important for speed acts is, that you use the loci-method with routes and not the link-system or story-system.

The difference:
In the link-system you combine one image with the next one to remeber.
In the story-system you combine each image with a learned way. It should be an existing way, maybe through your home or through a city with a lots of markant points. You then walk through this way mentally and will know the order after repeating the way only once or twice. Having this way, you connect the images/words/pegs you want to remeber with this routepoints.
"There have been many claims by magicans and mentalists to the invention of mnemonics; some of the claimants have been world-famous performers - and none of them have a right to their claims!" - Corinda
Partizan
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What is important for speed acts is. whatever method you work with best.

The loci method is fine unless you are rubbish at directions or have a poor grasp of three dimensional space. I find it limiting for recall at specific numbers.
"You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus."
- Mark Twain
Unknown419
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Hey ya'll experts please just do me this one favor and tell me what to do, be specific and direct me in the right direction this is all I'm asking. I'll try all of best techniques that ya'll direct me to and will decide which one works best for me.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Doc

I just looked up the Loci Method and to me (I'm a layman here) I'm already using this type of system. When I first learned this technique I could remember 11 items very easily backwards and forward. I thought that this was the Dominic Journey System. Please advise and which is the quickest way to remember everything in exact order.

Doc
tommy
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http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~roy/magictalk-wi......nic.html

I have seen O'Brian in action he is good. He is banned from casinos.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Yiannis
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Hi Doc...

I've been using the Dominic system for card memorisation, for over 5 years now. In my opinion, is the best system around. Andy Bell, who holds the world record is using a slight variation of the journey method employed by Dominic. (The Dominic system uses 1 image per location, while Andy Bell uses 3 images per location. By doing this, you use only 18 stages - actually 17.3 - to store the whole deck, which makes this method a bit faster)

I found out though, that if you practice with the Dominic system you can get the same result and even better. I believe, is a matter of personal choice. I got a time of under one minute in just 2 weeks of practice.

I would recommend for you the following.

Forget everything else, and start with the Dominic system. The best resource to learn the system is:

"How to develop a perfect memory"

In this book the system is analyzed in detail. Even though Dominic has published several other works that include his card system, the above book is the best.

I'm pretty familiar with all the other memory books around, as I have read every single one of them. Tony Buzan, Harry Lorayne, Andy Bell, Jonathan Hancock, Vicky Long, Douglas Mason... all have excellent advice on general memory techniques. But NOONE of the above writers comes close to Dominic's system on cards. Even Andy Bell used the Dominic system to beat Dominic O'brien on the World Memory Championship.

If you want the fastest and the safest system, that's it!!

Ps: You can find the book at http://www.amazon.co.uk
Memo
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There is a big important difference betwen Andy Bells System and the Dominic System.
Andy bell uses persons, verbs and objects for his cards, Dominic only persons.

Actually ontop is Ben Pridmore, actual World Memory Champion. He uses the combination of the "color" (spades-spades, spades-hearts, spades-diamonts...) for an consonant sound at the beginning of the word for his image. The first cards value (2,3... K,A) is formed into a vowel sound. There are 16 vowel sounds in the English language, he uses 13 of them. The value of the second card is formed in a consonant again. There are a lot tricky combinatioms and it is much work to do. But you will have an image for each two-card-combination and he puts three images on one point on his memory-routes. So he needs just 9 points for each deck of cards.

The world record holder Andi Bell has got a person, a verb and a object for each card. He takes combinations of three cards and the first card is for the person the second for the verb and the third for the object. So each combination of three cards leads into a small sentence or story.

Take a look at Banquet Room » » Inner thoughts » » Memorizing Cards
"There have been many claims by magicans and mentalists to the invention of mnemonics; some of the claimants have been world-famous performers - and none of them have a right to their claims!" - Corinda
Unknown419
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Hey guys thanks very much for your help.

Yiannis thank you very much for your brief insight to this technique.

Memo thank you too but I have to say this, you in my book are a geniius at what you do but in my opinion, I don't know how to say this correctly. You need to be able to break all of your knowledge and experience down in layman terms where people such as myself can understand you much better. I definitely know that you know what you're talking about but layman like myself don't and in order for us to understand how deep your knowledge is, you have to serve it to us in the best layman terms that you possibly can in order to get us to follow you and your train of thought. Keep up the good work.

Fellows I already had my friends and family members as my playing cards so all I did was take the natural actions that I know that they normally do and put it with their names, try it. It's much easier than remember famous stars in my opinion because I see these here people mostly everyday.


Yiannis and all who privately IM me thanks very very much for your help in this area.

I guess in no time flat I'll be remembering every card I deal a sucker using my shiner and know exactly what's in the deck.

Sincerely

Doc
Memo
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Hi,

it is difficult for me to explain it in English.
English is a foreign language for me.
If you can speak German, it will be much easier for me to explain it to you and anyone else Smile

Did you read, what I wrote in the Inner Thoughts?
Anything helpful?

Best regards,
Boris
"There have been many claims by magicans and mentalists to the invention of mnemonics; some of the claimants have been world-famous performers - and none of them have a right to their claims!" - Corinda
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