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Danny Diamond Inner circle Connecticut 1400 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-02-24 22:02, Fishsticks wrote: Michael Jordan was cut when he tried out for the varsity basketball team in high school. I guess at that point, he was not considered part of the top 10% in his field. Does that mean he should have quit? Did he ruin basketball by continuing to play?
You don't drown by falling in the water;
you drown by staying there. - Edwin Louis Cole |
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Hart Keene Inner circle Eugene, OR 1486 Posts |
Excellent post Danny!
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Alan Munro Inner circle Kentwood, Michigan, USA 5952 Posts |
There are some guys in the magic club, who I wouldn't dream of calling a "magician", who botch tricks left and right because they mistakenly think that magic should be easy to perform. I have no problem stating that I think their act is torture for an audience. I won't even help them unless they take steps to show that they are willing to make an effort to improve.
There are others who have their audiences' best interests at heart and are always trying to improve. I help them when I can. I think it's perfectly okay to be an amateur, if you're determined to be a good one. |
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Mystic Magic New user 82 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-02-24 22:02, Fishsticks wrote: I'm kind of curious, did you misplace the other 10% with your mind. I'm not saying you're crazy, but you gotta be frickin' nuts. What are you trying to do, make a bunch of enemies? 'Tis a sad, sad thing when someone finally falls off the edge of sanity, a sad thing indeed. Mystic Magic |
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johnnymystic Inner circle North Adams Ma. 1576 Posts |
In all honesty...most local performers suck the big one and in a really big way they do suck...most of the time these people are only fooling themselves and they are only doing magic shows for themselves...it's an ego thing. How dare they even think of charging $$$ for a show.
I used to be of that calibur...those days have changed over the past decade, the problem is that most who perform and charge $$$ for it are really not very good... I know because I've checked out the locals and have made my routines totally different from the rest. Do I perform the break away wand, NO! The coloring book...NO! All those standard prop's? Hell No!!! And Why do I not.... because every body else is doing the same, lame gags and tricks... johnny
I drink cheap tequila and vomit
<BR>I cannot eat hot wings...acid reflux <BR>I never inhale <BR>I can put a field dress on a deer |
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
And evidently pleasing someone and making money doing it...
You used to be of that caliber, but you didn't quit, did you? If you make money at magic, you are doing something right. Don't compare yourself to others. Keep pushing on forward. The greatest runners don't look back to see what the others are doing, they are striving against themselves, seeking a personal best. I have always admired the ones who enter a marathon only to find themselves dropping out after a surprisingly short while. They may have been silly and unprepared, but they tried and learned something. They have a wiser and deeper knowledge of what is required, and a greater and deeper respect for those who really do prepare and suffer through to the end. Those who do not enter the race may be more realistic, but they will never know in their bones what they know in their heads. Those who try and fail end up with a better sense and deeper understanding of what it takes--they feel it in their backs and lungs and calves. They are the ones who are true brothers and sisters to the winners of the race. They have true empathy, not just a cerebral understanding of what it takes. Let people be bad. Honor the art you love by being good, not by looking down on those who are not as good as you. It is those who at try and still come up short who may eventually really appreciate what you have accomplished. "As Krishna said to Arjuna on the field of battle--not farewell, but fare forward, voyager." --T.S. Eliot |
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jwebyra Regular user New Jersey 140 Posts |
To be short, I am not very good at performing therefore I don't perform for the public. I have seen a few magicians who were bad, ie they did a trick like 'Mislead" just like David Copperfield on his specials. I have seen magicians expose the secrets by their really bad routining including tricks I own. I would never say everything to them out of respect for the art. That is why I won't perform in public so I don't end up like them plus I have respect to the art.
Thank you for your time. |
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Josh Riel Inner circle of hell 1995 Posts |
In my town, there are definitely 50% of magicians who are rotten. They have too many tricks they perform poorly and not a single trick they have mastered. In Yakima there are two magicians, and from what I understand the other guy is pretty good. So I have decided to (and have done so)packed up almost all my props and center on cards coins and the thimble rig. Meybe we'll get a full 100% (90% dependant on math skill) good magician rating before too long. I am not going to quit.
And I try to avoid taking critisism from fishsticks. I had some trouble with some bad advice I got with a chicken strip a while back.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
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Ed Hutchison Regular user Madison, MS (orig. CNY) 118 Posts |
If asked for the best advice one might give a roulette player, it would be very simple. Just tell them, "Quit!"
Since roulette is a game that everyone loses if he or she plays long enough, that would turn out to be advice that is true 100% of the time. However, where are the losers when it comes to magic? Even if we accept the silly statement that 90% of us are poor magicians, we can take heart from the fact that we must still be providing a world of entertainment to our audiences. Maybe we meant to entertain them with our artistry and wound up entertaining them with unwitting humor. But either way, some good has come from the effort. Ed Hutchison Entertainer--one way or the other! |
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Sergeant Regular user 129 Posts |
The problem is not that there are so many bad magicians; it is that we do not tell them the truth. Look, we were all bad when we started, hands shacking, no presentation, lots of “uhhs” and “umms” in our script. It takes a long time to get good.
We all need a place to be bad. The local magic club should be one of those places. However, we should give honest feedback. I have watched countless times people give false praise, telling someone, “Yes, it looks a lot better, keep going, you’re getting good.” This is not helping anyone. You must be honest. And that does not mean cruel. Sure, sometimes people have thin skin and they can not handle honest criticism. That is their fault and not ours. If you cannot handle being critiqued then find another hobby, art, or business. In this current climate of being politically correct, everyone is afraid to tell it like it is. They are worried we might hurt someone’s self-esteem. But, by not telling the truth we hurt them, magic, and future audiences. True story: In a club during a round robin performance where supposedly we were all to help each other with some critiques, I watched a dreadful performance of a six card repeat. This was by a member who has his “magic” business cards made up and tells everyone that he is doing walk around corporate gigs. As he finishes his painful presentation and awkwardly prepared trick, he asked for feedback. I was stunned as I listened to two people tell him how great it was. They came up with a multitude of trite compliments to falsely build his ego. Then it was my turn. I told him flatly that the routine would never fly in a corporate setting. His handling was awkward and his motivation was contrived and unbelievable. It looked as though he had only worked on the routine for a day while he was watching TV. I told him that if you were going to be handing out business cards and acting like a professional then you cannot even begin to perform routines like the one you just showed. You could have heard a pin drop. He was ****ed and stormed off. The other members told me how rude I was and how the performance was not that bad. They told me I was too critical. I took a lot of flak for that but I stood by my guns. Over the course of a month many people “secretly” commended me. However, that only made me only more upset. Why don’t you say the same thing? They all came up with many reasons. It is also interesting to note that about 2 months later the “magician” I critiqued came up to me to thank me for being honest. He said he was ****ed for a few days but finally realized that my critique was true. He stated that he is so used to just getting praise that when he finally got real feedback he was not prepared. So the question becomes, who is really responsible for all these bad magicians, the bad magicians or the fellow magicians that don’t tell the truth? Sure there are always few that will never get it no matter how many times they are told they need more work. But I believe the vast majority of them suffer from false praise that they continually get from their peers at the magic club. Sergeant |
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R2 Special user 935 Posts |
Thanks for the feedback Sarge....my six card repeat ain't so bad these days no more! Wink!~r2
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Ollie1235 Special user England 533 Posts |
Sergeant has a real good point there: we're not helping other magicians by just telling them they're good and lying to them. The only way to improve their act and their magic is to tell them what they're not doing well. That doesn't mean you can't compliment fellow magicians. It just means that you should be honest with them.
From now on, I think I'm going to be a little more honest with other magicians and I hope they'll do the same. ollie |
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edh Inner circle 4698 Posts |
You can be honest with your critique of a fellow magician and still be polite. Why not praise those areas that are really good and offer advice to areas that are not so good. This way, the person on the receiving end of the critique gets the praise that he/she wants and deserves. And this also helps in fine tuning the areas that need it.
Magic is a vanishing art.
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David Bilan Special user Clarksville, TN 714 Posts |
It's hard to walk the fine line of critique without hurting someone's feelings. We have a duty to be honest if asked, but I'm not sure brutal is the best approach. I don't believe empty compliments are doing the performer any favors, either. I think edh makes a good point in looking for areas to praise and offering sugestions.
Anyone attempting to create an original presentation deserves credit for making the effort. I had the good fortune to attend Sunday's workshop with Jeff McBride at the Winter Carnival of Magic. One of the other people attending did an effect using the invisible deck. Jeff did a great job of offering constructive criticism: If you use the invisible deck, Jeff suggests holding the cards at eye level as you fan through them looking for the reversed card. It avoids having your crotch be the bacground, allows you to keep eye contact with your audience and makes finding the right card much easier, since you are looking at the deck from the back side. Angles are an issue, but the close has a bigger punch. As I listened to the critique, I thought of my own handling (at crotch level) and have been re-thinking how I perform all my effects. The point is, Jeff's suggestions were gold, not only for the person being critiqued, but for the rest of us as well. It was a great lesson, not only in magic, but in how to offer help as well. Sorry if you think this is a plug Jeff McBride's workshop (excellent for all magicians), but it is an example that seems to have a direct bearing on this topic. David
Yes, I am a magician. No I did not make my hare (hair) disappear... it just took early retirement.
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