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Houdini man Veteran user USA 343 Posts |
I am a beginner, doing cuffs, and chains and soon rope ties.
I would like some info on SJ's from anyone who is knowlegable, please e-mail me thanks Perry
www.magicformagicians.info www.perry-reid.com
The only thing that spererates genius from insanity is success. |
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RickSilmser Special user 869 Posts |
Perry...my advice to you...stay away from gimmicked jackets unless the escape can use only a G/J. Mrs.Dunninger once told me..."If you use them, you'll get caught...my husband always said that tricked strait jackets are for little girls".
~Rick~ |
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mgical Regular user 195 Posts |
Gimmicked jackets are easier to come by, and with a little work (or better yet get someone to do it) you can have them ungimmicked. The Viking jacket is pretty nice and comes in a variety of sizes. It's all about showmanship, so the lessons you have learnt from cuff escapes etc will be a lot of help. The groin strap on the viking is long (at least the one I saw was) but it can be chopped off in time if you wanted
Since you say you are a beginner, maybe at first you want to leave the gimmick in the jacket while you practice your performance. |
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Harry Murphy Inner circle Maryland 5444 Posts |
You might want to try the Search function. The pros and cons of many jackets have been discussed and debated here. Further, presentation ideas have been discussed. There is a wealth of informantion already posted on this subject.
The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!
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Dr_Stephen_Midnight Inner circle SW Ohio, USA 1555 Posts |
Without getting into the push-pull over gimmicked/ungimmicked, I will say that I started with a Human Restraint jacket (no crotch strap) that I purchased from Prynce Wheeler. Discount Handcuff Warehouse now sells Humane Restraint SJs at an economical price.
http://www.handcuffwarehouse.com/hure.html Steve
Dr. Lao: "Do you know what wisdom is?"
Mike: "No." Dr. Lao: "Wise answer." |
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MarkTripp Special user Michigan 618 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-02-27 01:54, RickSilmser wrote: Well..... to each their own opinion. I have used an Abbott's for 30 years and NEVER been caught, or had anyone come close. As to being a little girl.... http://www.budokanjudo.org I don't think anyone would call me that on the mat! : P Mark Tripp |
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DavidEscapes Inner circle I'm Special! 1003 Posts |
Hi
Personally I abore fully gimmicked jackets. Mainly because, unless there are additional factors, such as great danger, or physical problems on the part of the performer, they are unnecessary, at least in my opinion. I would consider anything which does not have side and belly straps, narrow arm holes and the like semi gimmicked anyway. Not gimmicked by the addition of 'easy escape features' but simply gimmicked by design. Most 'ungimmicked' jackets fall into this category. I have been challenged once on the particular gimmick the abbott one employs, it was exposed on a TV show, and the volunteer went straight for the right bit, expecting to find something. The reaction was great when they didn't. The fact that the jacket was a Deval, with the widest arm holes ever went straight over his head, the strap wasn't loose, so he felt it was Kosher. That's what mattered. My advice, and I think I can back this up, is go for something without spotable gimmicks, such as loose straps. David
David Victor - The artist formally (and still occasionally) known as David Straitjacket.
My Website Add me on facebook |
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Houdini man Veteran user USA 343 Posts |
I will definetly search this now, thanks everybody. So I kind do you think I should get, I want to stay away from gimmicks, I think it would be good to get the real thing down first. Thanks again all
Perry
www.magicformagicians.info www.perry-reid.com
The only thing that spererates genius from insanity is success. |
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The Donster Inner circle 4817 Posts |
Humane SJ's are quite Popular.
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MarkTripp Special user Michigan 618 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-02-27 10:19, David Straitjacket wrote: Well, here is the other side... When you do this for money and in a real show, your feelings are not as important as the entertainment of the audience. BTW if you are not watching "The Entertainer" on E you are missing some good lessons. Now, with your real jacket, you get someone who plays a few games, you know, laces arm strap through a back strap, etc. Can you get out? Well, I'll say yes not to injure egos; but you will not get out quickly and it is going to muck up the show. I am sure you get a wonderful feeling when you get out of these "real" challenges you all make for yourselves... ....but entertainment isn't about how you feel. It is always about the audience. PS Everything has been exposed at one time or another. A real performer never has a problem with it. Mark Tripp |
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DavidEscapes Inner circle I'm Special! 1003 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-02-27 11:32, MarkTripp wrote: Hi Mark I do this regularly, for REAL money in REAL shows. And yes, if someone decided to muck about I would still get out in the designated time. The simple fact is, you should either make sure this doesn't happen in the first place. After all, you should control the audience, not the other way around. However, even with that said, you should already know how to get past whatever an audience member would do, practise these situations, and have a back up plan for these. I won't claim it has never happened to me, it did, BEFORE I learned how to control the volunteer properly. Did it stop me getting out, no, did the audience know that it might have taken slightly longer, no. I set the times, I set the rules, not them! Let me lay this down plain as I see it. An ungimmicked Humane Restraint jacket or similar is about as easy as taking off your T-Shirt, if you know how to use it. Unless you have no idea at all how to work a straitjacket, you don't need the gimmick with the lesser jackets. Its that simple. The straitjacket escape has been so damaged by time, exposure and over performance, particularly by poor magicians just wanting an escape for their show, that I feel you need every advantage to sell it. Not being able to allow COMPLETELY free inspection of the jacket is a disadvantage you don't need. How about being able to put the press person, booker, volunteer in the jacket so they can confirm it is inescapable? Except by you of course.
David Victor - The artist formally (and still occasionally) known as David Straitjacket.
My Website Add me on facebook |
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MattTheKnife Veteran user 356 Posts |
Hey there Mark,
Now I'm not looking to get in to the middle of this thing but I feel the desire to toss my thoughts in to the ring on this. I have to agree with David, there's really just no need to use a gimmicked jacket. For me it's not even about an sort of philosophical issue or ego or anything even remotely like that... all I'm saying is that there's no point to it. I mean my last girlfriend could get out of an ungimmicked Humane jacket even when you laced the arm strap through a back strap and she wasn't a magician or an EA… heck she was just a high school English teacher who had seen me do it so many times that she could have probably taken over that part of the act for me. Now it wasn't greased lightning for her or anything but she was far from a working pro who knows just how to deal with these sorts of things... so there's no reason that I can see as to why we shouldn't be able to handle these things. I mean this certainly goes under the old K.I.S.S. acronym. If there's no need for a gimmick then why spend the extra money and have something that can then be seen as a fake should it be checked when anyone in the know can do it with the real thing? Also, you mentioned the “Entertainer” on E. I like the guy’s jacket escape just fine but the only thing that sort of weirds me out about it is that it’s a vinyl. Now the neat part of that is that the audience can see what’s going on inside but I dislike the tradeoff of looking like it just came from an S+M show. I try pretty hard to keep such things away from my EA reputation. But that’s just me. -Matt (TK) PS- Rick, that quote from Dunninger’s wife is GREAT! Hahaha |
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The Donster Inner circle 4817 Posts |
I'm sure there are reasons why some people like gaffed/regular sj's. I say let the buyer decide what they want.
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Wolflock Inner circle South Africa 2257 Posts |
I must agree with David and Matt on this one. I like things in my escape to be as authentic as possible. A Gimmicked setup may seem real to the audience, but it will not feel real to me. But to each their own. My suggestion would go with Don on this. Buy both and see which works better for you and your show, choice made, use the one you feel more comfortable with. I use gimmicked cuffs for shows that I am doing magic with and need to get out quick, but when I do most of my usual escapes, I use my real cuffs. I never have to be afraid of someone exposing gimmicks then.
Regards Wolflock
Wolflock
Pro Magician & Escapologist Member of JMC (Johannesburg Magic Circle) South Africa |
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Harley Newman Inner circle 5117 Posts |
What's the difference between a duck?
One leg is both the same. Really, we all need to have the flexibility to deal with any situation that comes up. So learning the techniques for a variety of jackets is important, for the same kinds of reasons that knowledge of different locks, cuffs, etc, is important. Mark, I like your comment about mental straitjackets. It's quite, to the point, in this discussion.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain
www.bladewalker.com |
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Dr_Stephen_Midnight Inner circle SW Ohio, USA 1555 Posts |
There was an interesting incident that happened years ago to my friend, Shawn Dion.
Shawn did a regular, weekly show at a local night club, where he featured the escape from a legit Posey jacket. One night, his volunteers 'jobbed' him, knotting and wrapping the straps in an attempt to foil him. The audience clearly saw that the volunteers were doing this. Shawn did not get out in his usual record time, but when he realized what had happened, he informed his audience that he WOULD get out, no matter what. The escape took almost 10 minutes. Shawn got a STANDING OVATION from the audience when he succeeded. Steve
Dr. Lao: "Do you know what wisdom is?"
Mike: "No." Dr. Lao: "Wise answer." |
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Kondini Inner circle 3609 Posts |
Well from a real entertainer who works for real money doing real shows I can vouch for David as he has done some work including TV which I have passed onto him,this includes suspended and stood up SJ`s.
My own preference is to use ungaffed stuff as much as possible but regarding SJ work, if you do a Film spot which gives you X minets to fill with only seconds varible each way then it makes sense to use a gimmed SJ which you can control to the nth degree time wise. If anyone should doubt this, then they have never worked under timed studio conditions, where air time costs $100 by the minet. For proof of the pudding see the UNED TV show (4hrs plus long which gave me three seperate spots each which were timed to the second. This was recorded a couple of months ago. The answers only come from doing it and each and every restraint gimmed or otherwise will find a place in performance. NB I am away from my home pc at present for the next two weeks `or so, so will not be able to post very often till my return. |
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DavidEscapes Inner circle I'm Special! 1003 Posts |
Hi Everyone
I'll have to make this quick as I have to leave for a gig in a few minutes. Timings. I have done ungimmicked straitjacket escapes on TV to precise timings, over Xmas I worked in a dance show where I had to do a straitjacket escape 25 nights in a row to fit precisely with a choreographed dance routine, every part of my escape was mirrored by the dancers, so not only did the escape have to be timed to the second, but the individual parts had to be timed in the same way. Whatever some people might claim, I am the CURRENT holder two Guinness world records for straitjacket escapes. There are times when gimmicked jackets can and should be used. But a beginner who wants to get a start with SJ's (as with the person who asked the question which started this thread) should get a real one. I have to go now to travel to a TV studio where I am performing alongside Tom Lyon for the highest rated show in the UK. We will also be on the live show in Saturday in front of 9 Million viewers. Have fun David
David Victor - The artist formally (and still occasionally) known as David Straitjacket.
My Website Add me on facebook |
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Wolflock Inner circle South Africa 2257 Posts |
Perry, PM me on MFM I will give you a few suggestions.
Wolflock
Pro Magician & Escapologist Member of JMC (Johannesburg Magic Circle) South Africa |
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Roslyn Inner circle UK 3405 Posts |
Going back to the original post. I started with an un-gimmicked jacket from Davenports here in the UK. I used this jacket constantly in my street shows for years. More recently I have been looking into many other types of jackets and have bought both gimmicked and un-gimmicked posey jackets (complete with front and side loops). I use both, but at different times depending on what I am wanting to do.
My advice would be to start with the un-gimmicked jacket (minus loops) and learn how to escape from it having it strapped up in every way you can think of. Then, as you improve learn how to get out of an un-gimmicked jacket with loops and finally when you are going to be doing a show decide on what you want to achieve and get the appropriate jacket for that situation. Which may mean you go for a gimmicked one. One thing I have found in knowing how to get out of an un-gimmicked jacket is that I know what it looks like, so if I use a gimmicked one I can make the escape look and feel the same to the audience as it would if I was using an un-gimmicked one. Just my thoughts, Ros
The Magic Cafe account of The Conwy Jester, Erwyd le Fol formerly known as Roslyn Walker.
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