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fanwun Regular user 172 Posts |
I did a search yesterday to find out more about Ted Lesley's Working Performer's Marked Deck. The thread I found, with it's name on it, revealed something that really puzzles me. To make a long story short, the guy who started the thread didn't like the deck because the markings were obvious. He was basically affraid that lay people would see the marks.
I've seen this "scared" attitude surface quite a bit. If it's not the markings on the Lesley Deck, it's the fact that the Black Tiger Deck screams trick deck, Whit Hadyn's golden shells are too large and don't look like real walnuts, or that certain props don't look natural. Speaking of natural, what is this the hippie magic movement or something? Let me give you all a reality check; THE AVERAGE PERSON DOES NOT CARRY A DECK OF CARDS OR A HALF DOLLARS ON A DAILY BASIS!!! You're a magician and, to the lay people, at the least bit, you're weird. Now, back to our regularly scheduled program... Where is the underlying confidence that any magi should possess? |
jcards01 Inner circle Waterloo, IL 1438 Posts |
On the other side of the coin, spectators are not as stupid as we think about some things.
Jimmy 'Cards' Molinari
www.jimmycards.com |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Some folks do magic with a borrowed deck, a new deck, or something like a pack of buisness cards or postcards. They are likely to use borrowed coins as well. No idea about the "hippie" thing you mentioned.
There are some who perform showpieces using props. Again, a choice. Who is scared of what? Those who decry a prop are just going to miss out on the fun of using that prop. Their loss.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-03-08 10:38, cards wrote: Ah yes but what kind of coin is that? Kennedy half dollar or a Morgan silver dollar? It is not a question of stupidity, at least not on the side of the spectator it is a case of Magicians guilt. I've never understood the "Trick Deck" syndrome. All these idiots who think that you must use Bikes cause that's the deck of cards most people have in their homes. Truth be told the only people who have Bicycle playing cards at home are magicians. If you rifled through your average Joe's home the deck of cards you'd most likely find; if you found any cards at all would most likely be an old advertising or souvenir of somewhere deck. But this is beside the point. This irrational, nearly phobic fear that a certain segment of the magic community harbors of the spectators thinking they might be using a trick deck is bizarre at best. When shown a trick the spectator is going to come to one of two conclusions. 1. Trick deck 2. Trick Hands Only the tiniest segment of the population is going to believe even for a moment that it was some mystical power that caused their card to reveal its identity to you. Nope John Q public is going to be thinking Clever fellow at best and trick deck at worst. To many people are sweating over whether or not they think the audience id going to suspect their props that they neglect to develop presentations that not only justify the use of said props but make the performance about the magic and not the props.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
I bought this pack of cards at the magic shop, but can't seem to get it to change into all ace of spades. (does riffle display as if was gaffed deck) Here perhaps you know how it works. (gives out deck...) Nothing for you either? Not even one more ace? Just four? Okay maybe this was the one I got at the supermarket.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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fanwun Regular user 172 Posts |
I agree with you Jimmy. I'm not saying the spectators are stupid. Well, there are some wickedly stupid spectators out there, but they are not the majority. I guess this goes more along the lines of magicians trying to covince lay people that they too are lay people. It's not going to work, so why try?
To John, the hippie thing was a joke. I have a funny personality, but I've been trying to work on actually writing jokes. Sorry if I confused you. My thing is this. I don't care if you borrow the deck or not. I don't care what method you use to accomplish this either. The simple fact is that making a card, that was placed in the middle of the deck, appear on top of the deck is NOT natural. After someone sees you do this, they do not think of you the same. At worst, they'll think you're weird. At best, they'll pray to you. Either way, they will never look at you the same as they did before. No matter how "cool" one may become as a result of magic, there will always be that mystery that follows it. You don't see people walking down the street levitating cards or hankies on a daily basis. I think, in most cases, that magicians want to disavow themselves of the past. What's really funny is that most think that David Copperfield represents that "past." It's like they try to be "normal"/natural so much that they forget to be magicians. |
Brandon Delgado Loyal user St. Louis, Missouri 293 Posts |
I bought a lot of things from the magic shop, too. Like these black and white cards called "Tigers" or something. And this little bag with a handle that makes things disappear, or even change into something else; and a lot of other neat stuff, too. I could show you some tricks using all these things, but you'd probably be suspicious of them, so I won't.
Do you have a non-suspicious-looking quarter I can borrow? |
Jaxon Inner circle Kalamazoo, Mi. 2537 Posts |
I agree that some magicians go over board on the realness of props. I think some of the fear they might have about if the spectators will discover this is a trick item (such as a marked deck). Goes back to the beginning of when they first started in magic. I'm sure most of you remember the feeling that you think the spectator is going to see the T-tip. For some of us it took quite a while to be confident with the thing.
I don't know what people where expecting the Tiger deck to be. I picked one up and I like it. Not for any magic reason. I like it because it's different and I'm a big fan of the unique. I have many unusual decks of cards such as round decks, zig zag decks and decks from different countries. I love unusual puzzle and what I call "Do nothing toys." That's all I expected from the Tiger deck. Just something different. Are there magic uses for it? Sure there are. The same for just about any object I can hold in my hand. Yes, some rave about how bad it is because it's just a deck of cards. What where they expecting? I also agree that it's all about entertainment. But we have to be honest. Some people do like to see things like magic as a puzzle. If something is out of the ordinary they see that is having something to do with the method. I remember one time in a casual performance a guy decided to count how many cards I had in my deck. I had 49 cards in there because I had some signed and used in different routines. He was excited that he discovered that something was out of the ordinary. He knew a deck had 52 cards yet mine had 49 and that had something to do with how I was able to do the tricks I did with that deck. That's kind of a strange example but it goes to show how some people think. Your comment about "Whit Hadyn's golden shells are too large and don't look like real walnuts" made me laugh. It reminds me of one of Rudy Coby's specials with a huge 8 foot egg. An "Egg expert" examined it and when asked if it's normal he relied, "It's as normal as any fake 8 foot egg".. If someone uses objects that the spectator is not familiar with then it will be suspicious in the area of "the puzzle." If your performing style doesn't depend on this and you're still entertaining then all is well. As for myself I feel that magic is it's strongest when it seems more impromptu. I feel it's strongest when the spectator isn't working on a puzzle but enjoying a laugh or a moment of shock. So I feel the props you use do matter, but it depends on your performing style. I also feel that the spectators will only know what you show them or tell them by with words or action. Ron Jaxon |
enriqueenriquez Inner circle New York 1287 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-03-08 11:17, Payne wrote: Well said Payne. I think the only fake prop is the Stupidometer. Measuring a method’s rate of failure or success by the amount of stupidity of the audience, indicates that we are approaching them with the wrong foot as human beings. |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Can I get a Stupidometer? I'm also looking for an Althiometer ( his dark materials)
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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enriqueenriquez Inner circle New York 1287 Posts |
I will love to have an Althiometer myself. Sadly, the Stupidometer are more common...
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Mr. Muggle Special user 999 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-03-08 13:58, fanwun wrote: I wouldn't say that Copperfield represents the "past"- very few have EVER done what he has done to our art. He has taken many things up well above the next level. MM
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
The guy is doing what others, Thurston and Blackstone, and Houdini before him, have done FOR the art. Kept it in the public eye. The guy is on tour and doing shows and parties all over the world. Hurray for us!
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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enriqueenriquez Inner circle New York 1287 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-03-08 19:09, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Ouch! I thought you were going to say: “dating top models”. Well, I guess that “keep it in the public eye” is good too... |
fanwun Regular user 172 Posts |
I, personally, don't consider Copperfield to be of the past. I actually see him in the same light that Jon (sorry about the previous spelling) put him in. To say that I'm a fan might be an understatement. Most of the flack I've see about him comes from the Blainiacs and is taken with a grain of salt.
In pondering this topic, I think practice is an issue. When I perform an effect, I have to feel comfortable with the effect. Granted, I do get a little nervous the first time I perform a new effect, but I think that's because I don't know what reaction it will get. Of course, I am in no way the world's greatest magician, and my act is ever improving. I have "testers" if you will when I perform. There are some things that I experiment with, while performing, to see if they would fit in my act. I try to put at least one into every other performance. If I'm comfortable, I put it in. I then rework the patter and presentation, if necessary, to fit my act. I also, with just about all my effects, construct outs. MESSAGE!!!: If you took more time to construct outs and other nuances, you'd have less time to worry about specs catching you out there. Some of the greatest things I've learned about this art is not the methods and tricks I come across. It is the wisdom that is espoused by experts in the field. I also have realized that not all are as fortunate on that level. That is why I give this advice to those who get all their insight from places like this: LISTEN TO THE PROS!!! While I'm not familiar with everyone, I do look for the following names everytime I come to the Café: Jonathan Townsend Whit Hadyn Pete Biro Payne Curtis Kam Dan Watkins There are others, but I think everyone has different tastes. In any event, when Whit, Pete and Jonathan aren't telling jokes, they're giving great advice. Do I agree with everything? No, but I still consider it. Why? Experience. I don't know about Jonathan, but I know Whit and Pete have been performing before I was born ('76). I don't know how old Jon is, but I know he's been performing at least since I was old enough to learn the times table. So, if you don't have access to a real world pro in your area, the internet is a great replacement for pen pals. Now, I don't know about you all, but, after spending hours upon hours of practice and preparation, I ain't worried about whether they will see anything. Now, if they don't notice that my shoes match my shirt, then we have a serious problem. |
CamelotFX Special user Minnesota 596 Posts |
If you're charging admission, have a routine, staging, music, lights and lovely assistants then you're an entertainer.
If you're walking into your cubicle and your coworker asks "Have you seen the Haversham file?" and you snap your fingers and it appears in your hand... ...you're a magician. Only then! |
fanwun Regular user 172 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-03-10 02:04, CamelotFX wrote: LMAO!!! That was a good one. |
christopher carter Special user 660 Posts |
I have discovered that a surprisingly high percentage of men ages 17 to 25 or so are carrying decks of cards these days. The popularity of Texas Hold-Em is so great now that many are ready to play at a moments notice. Given that, it does make sense to be able to do magic with their deck if they bring it out. (And they will.)
--Chris |
fanwun Regular user 172 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-03-10 11:51, christopher carter wrote: I've noticed this slight occurance as well. It's a fad to say the least, but point taken. I stand corrected, I guess. Cards are an every day item in some circles. |
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