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aussiemagic
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Howdy,

I have been interested in doing a street show for some time but due to laws requiring permits I haven't had the opportunity to do so. It looks like I might be able to do a show in May. 3 shows each a 20 minute slot.

I love the cups and balls but rarely get to perform it because I normally do strolling or stage shows.

Obviously it is a great trick for the street, but I have one question. When you load from the pouch it seems blatantly obvious that you are putting something in the cup. I have Gazzos video on the cup and balls and I think Gazzo is great but I don't know about the loading from the pouch???

Kozmo even says on one of the Cellini dvds that he thinks people will catch on to the method if they watch you perform a second time. He said this when he was discussing his table. From what I have heard too, Kozmo does a chop cup routine as his closer, not the cups and balls...

Looking through the posts here it seems that using a pouch is a favoutite method among many performers. Do people really not notice that you are loading? I thought it strange too how Gazzo puts on the pouch just before he starts his routine. And, he continues to load after revealing some fruit. Seems so obvious... However, loading from your pockets like Cellini does on one of his dvds seems much more deceptive.

I would appreciate some feedback from "Pouch users".

Thanks
Simon
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Bill Palmer
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I've posted a thread called "Final Load Logic," which you will find in the Secret Sessions after you have 50 posts.

I will PM you some information that helps.

So much of the final load sequence depends on how you direct the spectators' attention. My PM will explain this in more detail.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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Zack
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LOL. I could tell you stories. I leave the pouch on all the time. For some weird ass reason, its completely psycologically invisible. People look up and down for where the melon could have come from and they just don't see it.
TheAmbitiousCard
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You can't be worried about "the second time."

I load 4 oranges. When the first orange is produced, the final oranges is arriving under the cup. That is when they might start to look around. But by that time, I'm all done loading oranges.
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Zack
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Quote:
You can't be worried about "the second time."


Words of wisdom!
Gazzo
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Just the other night a magician walks on stage and switches a one dollar bill into a hundred and he used a thumb tip but I can see that he has a fake thumb on it was so obvious I just don't know how he gets away with it.
Bill Palmer
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Did he have four balls? Footballs, I mean, of course.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Gazzo
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Shut up you silly Billy.
kOnO
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I had a fake Thumb once, Lost it in the shuffle


kOnO
It is a lot easier to get older than it is to get wiser.
cstreet_1986
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I think you always run the risk of being caught the second time... but don't worry about it. You're pulling a crowd and then letting them walk and hopefully getting another crowd.

Chase
chrisrkline
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I just did some busking yesterday and did one show for about 20 people, mostly teenagers and some kids and parents. I did the six load and hat load. You have four loads done when they see the first one. You then mess with the hat and one small ball for a while, and the last loads are done in a fury. My pouch is lower than the table. After I was done, the teens all wanted to see how the baseballs became expanded in size and they wanted to check out my table. I was standing there with my empty pouch; they saw me put the pouch on at the beginning of the routine. I had just done six loads. No one, and I mean no one, asked about the pouch. They were convinced that the loads came from "holes" in the table. What they see is not loads under the cups, they see more than one loads under the cups--unless you do just three loads. That is what they can't figure out.
Chris
Kozmo
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I wouldn't worry about the second show either....pouches have been used for years a lot of years...100's....the reason I talked about the table servant is its another way and I think more repeatable.....in my opinion....i do a chop cup with just 2 lemons and a big load...big fruit......thats how I end...and it works for me....

koz
BroDavid
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And even if some see it happen (not many will...) unless you are so clumsy that everyone sees it, or your presentation is so lacking in entertainment value, most will go right along with the show.

But if you sense that somebody really caught you and they are up front and you don't want to risk them spilling it.... just point to them, smile and say "good catch" and give a wink, and hold your finger up in front of your mouth in a "shhh" move. Now they are in on it with you, and won't tell a soul...until they need to brag sometime after the show. And by then you have the tip, so who cares.

BroDavid
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bonehead
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Quote:
On 2005-03-29 23:41, aussiemagic wrote:
Looking through the posts here it seems that using a pouch is a favoutite method among many performers.


That statement alone should convince you of the merit of using a pouch. Performers successfully use them, Magicians successfully come up with reasons why they can't use them, the logic, the reasoning, the excuses, all while real performers are filling their hats.
Werner G. Seitz
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I would love to use a pouch (really), but somehow it might not fit a tux? Smile
What about a cumberband pouch?
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
Jim Wilder
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One can over analyze this from many angles. Most people spend more time analyzing than actually doing. One vital thing that, of all people, magicians seem to forget is that misdirection is key in the loading sequence. That is not intended to be critical, but seems a fair assertion. And more, typically misdirection is "naturally" built in by virtue of focus being maintained on the performing surface, not the cups or the pouch.

For open and surrounded performances such as on the sidewalk or at a festival, I find no better method to suit those needs than a pouch.
Werner G. Seitz
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Quote:
On 2005-03-30 10:11, Jim Wilder wrote:
For open and surrounded performances such as on the sidewalk or at a festival, I find no better method to suit those needs than a pouch.
100% agreed!
Still some ppl are using servants or 'pouches' attached behind their table, that's NOT the same then wearing them, and unless one is a *Gazzo*, one should wear the pouch from the beginning of ones act, removing props out of the pouch, handkerchiefs, whatever is used..ropes, aso. to establish WHAT the use of the pouch is and WHY you wear it..

It simply is there to hold your props..and the final loads are not the issue for the specs..the pouch is a pocket worn to have ones props at hand..that is what it should look like to the specs.

The fact that Gazzo is able to put it in place just before he starts his C&Bs is another thing, no rule without exceptions..that guy could do whatever he wants, he's mainly an entertainer, he does use a bit of magic, but he IS an enetrtainer even without doing any magic..the magic is just the red thread when entertaining ppl, it's NOT the main thing...often we 'magicians' forget that..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
Bill Palmer
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Steve Burton made a "formal pouch" that was designed for strolling magicians. I have one of the prototypes. Claude Crowe and I had a long discussion about wearing it. I agreed with his conclusion, which I post here.

The conjurers pouch is really an evolutionary development of the worker's pouch, such as the carpenter's apron. A street magician is a working man. So a pouch or an apron is perfectly acceptable attire for him. But a tuxedo is attire for the gentry or their servants. A belted pouch would be as out of place with this kind of attire as, say, a pair of rubber work boots.

The cummerbund pouch may or may not work for you. It can't be as open as a regular conjurer's pouch, because of the way it will make you look.

Now, for my own work, I wear a formal vest. I find that it offers many more opportunities for concealing work. it also fits my shape (round) much better. I have discussed my methods for working with a vest in this thread:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......7&12

The method is covered in my second post to the thread.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
TheAmbitiousCard
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I agree. I do not wear a pouch when I'm in a suit.
That is rare, however.

I usually wear a tux shirt, vest, bow tie, black pants,
..and rubber work boots.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
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Werner G. Seitz
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Bil Palmer
I did reread your description via the link you posted above..and if I'm not mistaken that was about how to get hold of the loads when wearing a tux.

Now, my main reason for using a pouch would not only be fetching probable loads, but also to have all the props at hand and ready..
Props like ropes, Chop Cup, Rubik Cube, coins, Hindu-thread-stuff (a couple), silks/TT and similar, maybe I would even have the Paul Fox Cups inside the pouch, IF I would do the routine.
So my main goal re using a pouch was more to have the *stuff* on the body all the time to get at it easily, I actually suppose I still would do the final loads out of the pocket, no melon of course Smile
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....

( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might
as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... Smile )
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