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Munskin Loyal user Cheshire, UK 297 Posts |
Hi all,
I've been toying with the idea of performing magic at restaurants and bars for a while now, and have finally decided to go for it. I've decided to take a professional approach, should I ever be lucky enough to have the oppportunity to go full time (start as I mean to go on). However, money isn't my reason for this decision. The truth is - I love performing for people. Always have, always will. The idea of sharing magic with people and making them smile really does keep me going. To this end, I've selected about 20 effects that I would like to perfect. Among them are : Card to wallet, Paperclipped, Cards to Pocket, Invisible deck routine, Mr Cleans coins across, No jacket required, Fly Ring, Ring and string routine, 2 x Sponge ball routines etc. Now I don't have a problem with performing or selecting routines for particular venues (thank you Kirk Charles!). I don't even have any issues about performing for people (I've done stand up comedy for a while). I've even prepped my jackets and rehearsed with my props in my pockets, just so I know everything I'm carrying is practical and accessible. I've sat down and analysed the business side of things, such as contracts and promo packs etc, so I've no worries there, should I ever need to. My main problem is other magicians. Since I've aired my ideas about performing, I've been told countless times that I shouldn't even think about performing until I know x amount of routines, or that because I can't do a good bottom deal, I shouldn't think about calling myself a true magician. So my question is this: is there a certain standard that has to be achieved before anyone should perform in a professional setting (not necessarily for money)? Personally, it doesn't bother me if I never impress any magicians with my side steal or straddle faro. I'd rather focus on performing for laypeople. Obviously, I intend to perfect the routines I perform as best I can, but if I never do any knucklebusting stuff, can I still call myself a magician? Is recognition and respect from other magi important? I know it's a bit of a long winded post, but I'd love to hear what you all think. Thanks. |
Mike Wild Inner circle NY, PA, TX, MA, FL, NC 1290 Posts |
This is a direct cut & paste from my website:
Quote:
"Magic, in my opinion, is the relationship between the audience and the magician, not a series of complex sleight of hand moves. So, the more mechanically simple a routine is to perform, the more time and attention we can put toward entertaining, interacting, and amazing our audiences." Magic is what happens, not what you can do. It it happens, you're a magician, if it doesn't, you're a guy who knows a bunch of tricks and fancy moves. IMHO, Mike |
davidpaul$ Inner circle Georgetown, South Carolina 3086 Posts |
Hey Munskin,
Sounds like you have the all important respect for our art. I don't agree that you have to do knuckle-busting moves to be successful and to be called a true magician. What you should have are PEOPLE skills especially if you are going to be performing and particularly in restaurants. You should,of course,be polished in your presentation and technical ability and most importanly ENTERTAINING and RESPECTFUL. Also your repertoire should be varied to satisfy your performing situations and occasions. It looks like the effects you want to perfect are varied. It also sounds like you read Kirk Charles' book and did your homework. That said,I say go for it. Enjoy yourself and take that joy to your future audiences. I also say don't listen to the other magicians who say you HAVE to master the "Classic Pass" or do a perfect "Bottom Deal". They probably are not working. Just my opinion.......Take care David Paul
Guilt will betray you before technique betrays you!
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Clarioneer Special user Ferndown, Dorset, UK 624 Posts |
Has absolutely nothing to do with what sleights you don't know... Only suggestion might be a few more tricks that involve the audience a little more... things like gadabout, CMH, Pinnacle or S&S will allow you to perform closer and are more angle proof than something like Mr Clean Across and are easier too
Just enjoy the moment and the fruits of your hard earned labor...
catch you later
Clarioneer |
scottasf Regular user san leandro, ca 157 Posts |
Hi Munskin,
I really do not care what other magicians think about my skills. I am not a "magician's magician." I know about 7-15 diffrent effects with variations. And I know them well. I also know how to entertain an audience with what I do. Enjoy what you do and don't let the "know it alls" get you down. Magic is a craft that is to be shared. Have fun with it. Magically thine, Scott
2008/2009 President Oakland Magic Circle
"Life would be so wonderful if we only knew what to do with it." - Greta Garbo |
Allan Elite user 405 Posts |
You are right on track with everthing you do. You stated that there are 20 effects you would like to perfect. The time to perfect your technique is before you take the job. If your technique is up to snuff, you will then be able to concentrate on "entertainment value".
It's not what you don't know that should hold you back, it's what you do know & what you can do will that will propel you ahead. It sounds like you are well centered. Go for it. |
Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts |
I've been doing magic for a living for over a decade, part-time for another decade before that. I don't do a bottom deal or a side steal. there are a lot of "finger-flinging" moves I can't do. But put me in front of a group of people to perform my show, and I'll get paid, I'll get rebooked and I'll get referred. That's what it takes to make a living.
The audience doesn't know if the trick was done with a double lift instead of a second deal, or with a double-sided coin instead of knuckle-breaking sleight of hand. They just know if it looked like magic and if they enjoyed the performance. Sounds like you've done your homework and you've got what it takes. So the short answer is, "No, you shouldn't care."
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page |
Munskin Loyal user Cheshire, UK 297 Posts |
Thanks to you all for your responses. I hope that others, like me, who are thinking of performing take note too. It's weird, because I know I shouldn't really give a hoot if I impress magicians or not. I know from my comedy that I have the personality, humour and respect for people to suceed and make people smile, and I would, I mean, WILL look forward to combining this with my magic.
Again, thanks to all for giving me a bit of shove in the right direction. Musnkin |
mdspark Special user 784 Posts |
I totally agree with Scott's advice...this is one of the reasons why I have always resisted joining a magic club ( though I know not all are alike ). It was too easy for me to get sidetracked with new routines that are never really perfected, rather than focusing on what plays well for laymen and making my current routines/tricks entertainment.
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irishguy Special user Ohio 629 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-03-30 13:32, Munskin wrote: You just hit on the number one difference between performing for magicians and performing for laymen. Magicians will know when you do a certain sleight and judge how smooth it was. Laymen (should) have no idea what the routine entailed and are only interested in the effect. Use whatever methods is simplest to acheive your goal. Let overly critical magicians sit in their homes working on their perfect faro. |
Leeman Special user Hollywood, CA 709 Posts |
As far as only knowing a few tricks really well think about this... From what I have read and seen Eddie Tullock, a very successsful trade show magician, does only a few tricks and even fewer slights. In Michael Close's review of Tullock's video set he says the Tullock has "made a very comfortable living using only a force, a top change, a palm, and a simple card control." So there is the proof that we all don't have to be Michael Skinner.
And on a side note the reason that you are concerened about what other magicians think is because you are a comedian and comedians by there very nature are very self-sonscious and paranoid. |
Review King Eternal Order 14446 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-03-31 03:32, Leeman wrote: If you can do those, you can do 99% of card magic.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been" ..........John Greenleaf Whittier |
Munskin Loyal user Cheshire, UK 297 Posts |
Leeman,
Why would you say that comedians are paranoid? Why? What have you heard? What's everyone saying about me? You're saying I'm useless aren't you? I knew it! I should never have started this thread. Nobody likes me or my magic. LOL Again, thanks for all your posts. If anything it'll serve as a refresher to those of us who do, or want to, perform for laypeople, rather than show off to the boys at the magic club. Thanks again, Munskin |
Peter Marucci Inner circle 5389 Posts |
The line from the Duchess of Duke Street -- "start as you mean to go on" -- says it all.
I couldn't do a bottom deal if my life depended on it; thank heavens I was a successful magician before I found out that would keep me from being a successful magician! LOL! And the idea of a specific number of trick per table and per night are for those who request that sort of help, not a hard-and-fast rule. And obviouslly not for you, since your post demonstartes that you have the required respect for magic as an art form. If you want to go for it, go. Personally, I think you should because magic can use more clear-thinking people like you! |
Vraagaard Inner circle Copenhagen, Denmark 1479 Posts |
Yup, I think you are more than ready to go out and perform. You seem to have prepared yourself very proffessionally - best of luck.
For what it's worth in this context: Yes I drown myself in new tricks and information, because I'm a sucker for new methods. Yes during the last 3 years I've been rehearsing more than a 100 tricks and effects and tried them out, but when I really started performing live last year it all came automatically to me: I can only handle 20 different tricks to perfection at a certain time - simply because I need to rehearse and refine them constantly to keep them sharp. SO NO, you don't need 100, 200, and 300 tricks to be professional. But you need to perform the few tricks you do very well in terms of the total delivery being visual or mental magic, entertainment, patter, audience management and of course the effect it self. From my basis of 20 effects, I now only exchange a trick with a new if it's a better trick, if I'm bored with an "old" trick (I believe the audience can feel it if you are bored with the trick yourself) or if I need a certain trick for a certain occasion. However, knowing and having rehearsed several hundred tricks of course gave me a greater pool to choose from - so I hope I chose the most magical ones from an audience point of view. I still drown myself in new tricks, just to see if I can find better options or better methods for one of my "regulars". And remember: Enjoy the journey, enjoy practicing, enjoy studying magic and enjoy performing and gaining the experiences. We can all dream of the big show one day, but frankly the journey from here to there should be enjoyed in every moment. I wake up inspired and looking forward to when I can rehearse, study and perform magic. I'm sometimes frustrated of having to little time - but then I remember: "It's a quality to love a thing so much, that you want to use even more time on it". I'm a lucky guy, I have 2 new packages full of good stuff being shipped to me, and I just can't wait to open them. In love of magic Jan |
Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Dress well (better than the help). Clean fingernails. Engaging personality. Entertain and leave 'em wanting more.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Adammcd Regular user Greensburg PA 132 Posts |
This has been the best topic I have seen here in a while...
It's not what you ask it's how you ask... Thanks to everyone in this thread especially Munskin who asked in the first place. Adam
The last thing you ever expected, should have been the first.
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CyberMage New user 63 Posts |
Quote: From a magical slieght perspective, no, you don't have to know a certain amount of magic in order to perform for lay people.
So my question is this: is there a certain standard that has to be achieved before anyone should perform in a professional setting (not necessarily for money)? Personally, it doesn't bother me if I never impress any magicians with my side steal or straddle faro. I'd rather focus on performing for laypeople. Obviously, I intend to perfect the routines I perform as best I can, but if I never do any knucklebusting stuff, can I still call myself a magician? Is recognition and respect from other magi important? From an entertainer's point of view, YES, there is most definately a standard. That standard is defined as you MUST BE ENTERTAINING to your audience. If you aren't then you are a bad magician... PERIOD (and there are many magicians out there that are not entertaining, but have excellent tecnical skill. Trust me, I've seen my share of them.) It doesn't matter your technical skill level. If you are entertaining people well then you are meeting and exceeding the standard. |
Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
In the book "Don Alan: In a Class by Himself" he speaks of a Chicago based magician who has been performing his exact repitoir. I happen to know this magician that he is speaking of and he has been performing Don's Act for like over 20 years now. He doesn't care what other magicians think or he would have changed by now. If he can ignor the other magicians then I think you can. The only way to get good is through experience, and what better way than performing. Who cares if you can't do a bottom deal? I can and don't use it, does that mean I'm better than the guy who never bothered to learn it because he know's he won't use it? I'd like to think I'm better than him, but that's the way magicians are so either get used to it or learn the bottom deal. I think the lesson here is, if your bottom deal isn't any good, keep trying and trying, and you'll get it eventually. Wow this post got sidetracked...
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