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MattTheKnife
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Yahu,

But it's not just that particular cut. And besides that, you say that we all do it now because of the books from the 1920's did it that way (personally I didn’t learn it from a book I just saw someone do it as a child and duplicated it later at home)... well in that case what about the guys in the 1920's themselves? The point is that it has always been preferred and those books prove it goes back until before 1920.

You also go on to say that it's because right-handers hold the deck in their left hand. Well then I say back to you that the desire to hold cards in the left hand hand by rightys when cutting, dealing, etc only reinforces the idea that magicians (and perhaps people in general)have always preferred their left hand for such things.

Cheers,
-Matt (TK)
yahu
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Well, I believe right handed people hold the deck in their left hand because that allows them to deal the cards with their right hands, it obviously takes more control of the hand to deal than to simply hold the pack. And yes, many one handed cuts are learned by many magicians first in their left hands, but this is because the Charlier cut is what they learn first, and that becomes how they learn other cuts.
I am away and will be so until late July. I will have a chance to read the forums, but I will be pressed for time, and unable to read every thread. If you feel a thread requires my attention, please PM me with a link. Thanks, and have a great summer. :
MattTheKnife
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While I can't speak for others, I learned the Charlier in both hands... as I did with almost every cut. However I've always preferred the left to the right as I tend to get a smoother and more solid cut out of it. While I can’t speak for everyone, for me there is simply a greater feeling of control and its always been that way. This is also true for many of the colleagues that I’ve chatted with on this topic in the past. Again, I'm not certain as to why.

My guess has always been one of a neurological nature rather than a practiced one. The right and left hemispheres of the brain communicate with the muscles and sense organs through nerve bundles that cross from one side of the brain to the other. As a result, the left side of the brain controls the right side of the body below the neck and vice versa. In 95% of right-handers, the left side of the brain is dominant for language. And yet in 60-70% of left-handers, the left side of brain is also used for language. This is an example of something of a hardwired mental preset. It has always been my feeling that cuts may be made up of a similar neurological pattern known as Cerebral Dominance.

I could go on but I’d feel badly discussing neurology to deeply on a magic board. And besides, the aforementioned should give more or less the general points.

Cheers,
-Matt (TK)
yahu
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I can do Charlier cuts in both hands too. There is no move I can't do just as well in one hand as the other, I work hard to make sure of that. But I did learn it with the left hand first, and I maintain that this is due to the natural tendency for a person to pick the deck up in his/her left hand when to told to hold a deck in dealing position. What you said about neurology makes no sense to me, becuase then people would learn fans, forces, and a myriad of other moves in their left hand first as well, and I haven't observed this to be the case.
I am away and will be so until late July. I will have a chance to read the forums, but I will be pressed for time, and unable to read every thread. If you feel a thread requires my attention, please PM me with a link. Thanks, and have a great summer. :
Driver
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Ur wrong Yahu.
You don't do everything with your left hand do you?
write with a pen
coinrolls
chip tricks
brush ur teeth
Shift gear (well that's pretty obvious.. unless ur from the UK)
+ it's easyer to juggle 2 balls in the right hand than the left when you start out.

Matt simply stated that it might be easyer for the right side of the brain to controll the fingerskill needed to do one handed cutts? (again. right side of brain controlls left side of the body)
timemaster
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Lately ive been trying to learn everything in both hands. I can ohs in both hands now.
yahu
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Driver, you aren't arguing with me, you're agreeing with me. The point is, if the fight side of your brain was more capable of dealing with all these types of dexterity, you would do all those things you mentioned with the left hand. But we don't, so his thesis must be inacurate.
I am away and will be so until late July. I will have a chance to read the forums, but I will be pressed for time, and unable to read every thread. If you feel a thread requires my attention, please PM me with a link. Thanks, and have a great summer. :
jessicashurtz
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It seems this whole "argument" is a discussion that in reality is in violent agreement on many factors.

but personally, I think practise has a lot to do with how dexterous you are at one move or another. for instance, when I first learned OHR, I was taught to do it on my left hand. but after I was off alone trying to practise it and make it better, I tried to do it with my right, and found I could acutally do it better with my right. so I started doing them simultaneously, copying the specific muscle movements from the right onto the left until I was able to do it the same way in my left, and then I discontinued doing OHRs with my right hand.

after several weeks where I've been doing them solely on my left hand, I suddenly wanted to do them on both hands again to see if I could do a routine or at least, something involving double OHRs and lo and behold... I couldn't do an OHR on my right hand worth crap!

after some practise I've gotten ok at it again, yet now I'm still much more proficient with my left hand, though originally I was more adept with my right.

point of the story: is, I guess, that a lot of this discussion is relative anyway. many seem to be pretty worked up about who's "right" though, and I'm not sure what's trying to be proven "right," and let's not forget that none of us can really say with complete assuredness which reason is "right" for why it seems that one handed cuts are easier for right handed people on the left hand and vice versa.
-j
Driver
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You do somethings with your left, and somethings with your right. Why?
Because each side of the brain is better to controll different functions of the hand.
My opinion is that the right side of the brain(left hand) is better to controll a palm up han, while the left side of the brain(right hand) is better to controll the hand when it's facing down.

This wil make PS, Coin rolls, writing easyer with the right hand.
and Card manipulation easyer with the left.
This dosn't apply for juggling since finger controll isn't that important for jugglers.

The reason why ppl started to deal from the left hand is that they felt more comfortable throwing/dealing out cards with the right hand. It was easyer deal cards to each player around the table. then you would be stuck with keeping the deck in the left hand. But I think it's more the matter of how the brain works than the matter of culture. the left hand is better in controlling the deck while it's easyer to deal with the right hand.

Of course you can train both hands to be equal, and there are ppl that's born with equal "mental strenght" on each hand. and some are left handed.
MattTheKnife
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This will most likely be my last post on this thread as I'm not quite up for the back and forth banter that this appears to be generating. Yahu, whether you agree with me or not makes little difference. This just happens to be my opinion and unless you're willing to get a hold of a grant in order to prove otherwise I don't see a way that you’ll be able to alter my opinion. But for that matter I don’t really see why you should be troubled by my opinion either.

Quote:
On 2005-04-19 16:54, Driver wrote:
Matt simply stated that it might be easyer for the right side of the brain to controll the fingerskill needed to do one handed cutts? (again. right side of brain controlls left side of the body)


Driver- Yes, that's precisely it. You got it dead on.

Quote:
but personally, I think practise has a lot to do with how dexterous you are at one move or another.


You’re correct Jessica, the hypothesis does not rule out practice as a factor, quite the contrary really. An individual that suffers a stroke for example may teach themselves to write with the opposite hand should they loose the ability to do so within their dominant one. Of course that’s not to say that loosing one’s ability with one hand is what is necessary for practice with the other. All that is necessary is the desire to learn with the other.


At any rate, I was merely pointing out the general aversion, at least initially, to the left hand for the aforementioned practices (which I am quick to add is also the general consensus even here). This is much in the same way that most have an inherent aversion to write with their right hand which has been proven to be an internal preference rather than an external one.

Cheers,
-Matt (TK)


PS-
Quote:
My opinion is that the right side of the brain(left hand) is better to controll a palm up han, while the left side of the brain(right hand) is better to controll the hand when it's facing down


A fascinating hypothesis! Smile
The Magician
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I found the Charlier cut the be the easiset flourish to learn
The Magician

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