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Thoughtreader Inner circle Calgary, Alberta, Canada 1565 Posts |
Truthfully, I merely want some more opinions from you all. I know of an IBM official that uses false advertising (he actually states that he is the most request entertainer in the area, and yet has nothing to back this claim up) BUT this was just to tell you what the guy is like. The real offense is that he is constructing his own versions of marketed tricks, photocopying the instructions (sometimes he re-types them but it is still plagerism) and then sells them as the actual trick. He sells them to area junior magicians as well as anyone else that wants to buy them. And he is one of the territorial Vice Presidents of the IBM, someone who should be above all of this.
My question is this: What are your feelings on this matter and what would you do about it? Thanks in advance, PSIncerely Yours, Paul Alberstat |
Peter Loughran V.I.P. Ontario, Canada 2683 Posts |
This sounds disgusting to me, that's what I think, not so much about his claim to fame, but more so about ripping off tricks. As a magic inventor I can't stand this sort of thing. As far as what should be done, I think the rest of the IBM staff should be aware of what's going on if you can prove it.
P.
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John Smetana ???? - 2009 499 Posts |
Paul, I think you should spread his name all over the internet, provided of course you have proof of what he is doing.One proviso, I would tell him and the IBM first, via registered and notarized letters, what you are about to do should he not imediately stop doing what he is doing .I'm talking only about the theft of effects, etc. The fact that he's touting himself as the best there is is, although lame and probably not true, is not an offense although it could be deemed offensive.
Please keep us informed of your progress. Good luck Paul and as always, Best thoughts, John Smetana |
Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts |
I would contact the board members of the IBM to begin with. I would make sure you have PROOF that what you say is in fact the case. If they don't act, I would send a letter to Phil Wilmarth of the Linking Ring.
Probably your best course of action is to contact the creators and distributors of the effects you say he is bootlegging.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
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AllThumbs Veteran user UK 375 Posts |
If the problem is localized to your area, as well as following the sound advice given above you can do the following (just a thought).
You can offer to give lectures for the junior magicians. As a professional performer I am sure you will be welcomed. Introduce to them what you, perform a small suitable act. Talk about the value of putting effort, study and patience into magic and its related arts and avoiding marketed tricks until they had developed some skill...that sort of thing (you'll be doing a great service to them even if the original intention of doing all this isn't entirely successful). Also talk about integrity within magic, theft of ideas and plagarism. End with a short piece on how to identify ripped off products and why they should be avoided. My reasoning for this is generally most people don't like giving money to people and of course all beginners feel ripped off by either the quality or other reasons (sometimes unjustified). Every magician has experienced this when they start out. By visiting and talking to these junior magicians and not selling to them you are perceived differently from the guy that sells them 'dodgy tricks'. You set yourself up to be liked, establish a rapport and get a powerful message across (you are perfectly trained for this kind of interaction as a mentalist and hope you see where I'm coming from!) Of course all this is time consuming and I wouldn't blame you for not taking this route. As for stating he is the most requested performer. I *personally* wouldn't think too much of it. Performers of all types have trumped themselves up as the best, most popular, etc etc for hundreds of years. There is nothing new there. For an example without being rude you have on your page "The World's Greatest Mindreader - Hong Kong Press". While I don't doubt your integrity and I am sure that this was printed, and that you *may be* the best 'mindreader' in the world, I doubt the Hong Kong Press has seen enough (or indeed all) mentalists to be qualified to make such a statement. You market yourself in such away that you get people interested so they book you - and I don't blame you. btw If you ever perform in the UK (or New Jersey - don't ask) be sure to let me know! Regards, Kris Sheglova
The above is all rubbish, except that which you chose to believe
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Thoughtreader Inner circle Calgary, Alberta, Canada 1565 Posts |
Thanks all for your answers. His ripped off materials, I have seen first hand and there is no doubt that the instruction sheets were photocopied and in some instances were retyped with the exact wording. Most are the simple effects such as Nick Trost's Quadraplex and Oscar that are relatively easy to remanufacture.
As for his claims in both his internet web site and his yellow pages ad, in Canada, one must actually have the documentation for such statements and I am presently awaiting a reply from Consumer and Corporate Affairs (the government branch that deals with false advertising) of which this is. It is very misleading and between that and the stealing of magic effects, this is reprehensible for an executive of the IBM, especially when as territorial vice president, he is supposed to set an example. (Mind you, it is not like the past president of the IBM, Ken Klosterman did much better.) As for Kris, I am more than happy to send you a copy of the newpaper article or a picture of the banners we had. I come from a long line of legal people (in fact I am a qualified paralegal myself although I do not work in the field), with a father who is a judge and a brother who is one of the top entertainment contract lawyers in the business, I am very careful in my advertising, my contracts and my dealings. Hell, even in my shows, there are never any wires or steps for audience members to trip or hurt themselves (even liability pops up in my head when working) because of the legal issues surrounding it all. False advertising is just that. If as a booker, I were to hire someone on the basis of what that performer told/claimed and then go far less than promised, I would be furious and let everyone else know about the deception. Thankfully I have had glowing reviews and many letters of recommendation instead, including such newspaper articles as the one previously mentioned. There are many others that are no different, Chris Carter comes to mind as does Banachek, Ted Lesley (read the article at his web site), Quentin Reynolds, are just a few that come to mind off the top of my head. They too have similar examples of "truth" in advertising without resorting to "lies" or "misrepresentations" and in Ted Lesley's case, because he also markets effects, is so thorough about making sure that credits are provided and permission to produce certain effects are in place, that many other dealers (including the rip off artist that this post was about) would do well to learn from. Thanks again to everyone and if anyone else has further comments about this "jerk" and disgusting behavior of an executive of the International Brotherhood of Magicians, feel free to post it. PSIncerely Yours, Paul Alberstat |
bNiel New user 1 Post |
Thoughtreader,
Take him out. This kind of person seems to exist everywhere in magic, and maybe if one falls from his high horse, the rest might be on their way. (BTW: I believe I am aware of the person you are talking about). A word of caution: No one who enages in these activities is unprepared for the existence of someone like yourself. They will have evidence to back their case as well, so the trick is for you to get more evidence. (Who knows, maybe a trip to the court house, to search old records may help.) Second, kudos on contacting someone official - that is something that he can't fight. Another idea - try to gather some local supports amongst other magi - by the sounds of it it wouldn't be too difficult - I would side with you in a second. It would be far easier if wasn't you against the magic community. PLEASE let us know how it goes. -Brian Niel |
Thoughtreader Inner circle Calgary, Alberta, Canada 1565 Posts |
Well, as far as the advertising complaint goes, the government agency is now investigating this individual HOWEVER, does anyone here know who is now responsible for Nick Trost effects? And if you are, and if you know them, could you please ask them to contact me. Thanks in advance,
PSIncerely Yours, Paul Alberstat |
smittymagic New user 42 Posts |
Go Paul Go!!!
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Thoughtreader Inner circle Calgary, Alberta, Canada 1565 Posts |
Well, I said I would keep you informed and to my utter disappointment, here is exactly what the government agency sent me in regards to his overblown ad:
"Thank you for your recent query. The claim made <about the said individual> can be viewed in the context of advertising puffery and such claims are not sufficient, in my view, to raise concerns of a breach of the provincial Fair Trading Act. As such, I will not be investigating your complaint. With respect to your concerns about breaches in copyright, you may wish to advise the copyright holder of this concern, as it is they who must follow through to enforce their copyright. Stephen Louie Manager of Investigations" So my next step is this: IS there anyone out here in the Café who knows or has contact with the manufacturers of Nick Trost products. Can you either send me privately their contact info or ask them to contact me in regards to this disreputable IBM territorial vice president who is photocopying their instruction sheets and hand making their tricks, then selling them as their originals. Thanks in advance, PSIncerely Yours, Paul Alberstat |
Paul Inner circle A good lecturer at your service! 4409 Posts |
Steve Minch might have an address, didn't Hermetic Press print The Trost Book?
Paul. |
AllThumbs Veteran user UK 375 Posts |
I suspected that you'd get a reply like that. Unfortunate as it is. It would be nice to see adverts like 'average magician, here to make you smile politely' and 'Hire a magician for your kids party to spend 45 minutes modelling balloons into things that just about represent animals and spend 5 minutes with a dice box' so the lay public could easily distinguish.
Regarding my previous post. It was not my intention to make it appear I doubted your integrity. I know you don't need to resort to the level of using lies to promote yourself - I was trying to make a point. Apologies if it appeared otherwise. I do hope you are much more successful in your other 'avenues of attack'. Regards, Kris Sheglova
The above is all rubbish, except that which you chose to believe
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Thoughtreader Inner circle Calgary, Alberta, Canada 1565 Posts |
Thanks Paul, I will give Stephen a call this weekend.
And Kris, No worries. It just gauls me that someone would have the nerve to publish that they were the most requested entertainer in this area when they have NO proof what-so-ever about that, not to mention that this area is home to some of our country's leading singers and actors, as well as myself, one of our countries busiest illusionists, both of us knowing full well that we do 10 times more shows than this guy, let alone the requests that such singers as Jann Arden would get from here, not to mention the famous actors that live in the area including Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston, yet this guy claims that he is the most requested?!?!?!?! It's blatantly false advertising and misleading, something that the territorial vice president of the IBM should be above. But then again, the ex-president of the IBM should have been above petty squabbles over who was elected as president and not thrown temper tantrums with lawyers to help him either. In fact, it just goes to show what kind of people work behind the scenes in the IBM I guess. PSIncerely Yours, Paul Alberstat |
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