Eric's one coin routine is killer! Thanks man for shooting it to me, much appreciated. The moves are smooth and creative, but E's use of patter and misdirection in this vid is how it's supposed to look when you get it down as well as he's got it down. The guy's good, very good! And his finish-up with his Karate Koin variation is powerful. I've watched a lot of stuff from a lot of magicians and I must say that Eric Jones is amongst the very best young guys I've seen. His style is refreshing, clever and confident. It's cool and jazz-like with a lot of improvisation and nice hooks. Yeah, I guess you could say he's a sort of "Jazz Magician." The heck with what you heard, this cat is all that and more. Do yourself a favor and check him out to see some real smoothness, pinache and cool.

"Which do you think is the best stand up one coin routine, using no gaffs and just one coin?"

I'm of course biased, but the best one coin routine is found in my new book in chapter 25. It's called The Recalcitrant Coin.

Eric Jones , can be seen on my latest dvd ...La familiga
a banner will soon be up on the Café , look for further details...
the godfather

Put me down for one Vin... Can't go wrong with "La Famiglia." And this family member, Eric Jones has been around the other families here, so he knows both sides of the track...Should be a great dvd. Hope folks here support it, as much as support here is asked for by many.

I agree with Eric Jones on the "finger through coin".
I like to include the "finger through" into a longer one-coin routine, making it appears just like a "toying with the coin" trick rather than an effect in itself. It defuses the focus on the "where is the other coin?" question since it flows into a one coin trick.

Coin in pen cap is great too. If you wear sleeves, coin in pen cap could become a great trick (with vanish and reproduction of the pen, change of the coin into the pen, and s.o.)

Jonathan.

What motivates the routine?

For example, is this a new coin you are training so it can perform with the others?

A bit of your imagination that escaped one night and you found it in your pocket change?

Jon, not to tease you too much , but AFAIK, neither Fred Kaps, Slydini nor Albert Goshman ever speculated about that kind of motivation they had to *invent* for their actions!

They *just* performed exceptional well done and entertaining MAGIC, nothing else, and they really entertained ppl!!
What more can one ask for??

When coins appeared under the salt or pepparshaker there was no *motivation*!
It was pure MAGIC!!!
(End of lecture )

Werner, you sure have a knack for cutting to the chase about all this stuff, and very well I might add. :

A clear understanding of motivation and character distinguishes those who perform for themselves from those who perform for others. Sadly, Fred Kaps, Tony Slydini and Al Goshman are not around to answer the question folks seem to need answered.

Ask an actor why they do a certain gesture at a certain time and likely they can tell you in detail about their character, circumstance and the inner moment which motivates the action. As any magician who took up the study after the writing of Our Magic should know, the same is true if not more so in magic. In magic we are out to entertain with our persona AND to perform as if there were true magic happening. *(note)

Till we know why we are doing something, or in the case of routines where the prop is supposed be animated, why the prop does something, our audience will be asking not "how did you do that", but "why did you do that". The latter question is a non-trivial matter and an open discussion likely falls outside the scope of this BBS.

* Yes this also links directly to that famous quote from J. E. Robert-Houdin about how we are not out to impress others with skill in the the way of jugglers but instead to entertain offering feats of simulated magic.

Exactly!
Jon, I don't post at this board anymore normally, so pls. let me slip for a complet explanation re my thoughts on your question re *motivation*..

Some of what you mentioned back is IMHO entirely off topic and doesn't cover your request re motivation as you mentioned originally -and to what I answered- re that *kind of* storyline:

"For example, is this a new coin you are training so it can perform with the others?
A bit of your imagination that escaped one night and you found it in your pocket change?"

Your remarks:

"Ask an actor why they do a certain gesture at a certain time and likely they can tell you in detail about their character, circumstance and the inner moment which motivates the action."

are of an entirely diff. matter!

You most certainly know my answer had nothing to do with a performers character.

What about the guy who entertains ppl by telling funny stories, or transfering this to magic, a guy like Gazzo that entertains ppl using magic as a *byplay* ?

What is his motivation re his C&Bs or a certain move he does during that routine?

I hope what I mentioned makes my thoughts clear...motivation IS needed when performing, but I translate (in my mind) *motivation* to *certain logic*, why one does do this and that *move*..why does one look up and smile and crack probably a joke or ask a silly question they have to speculate a split second about, whilst you do your *move*..

There IS a reason for all this, but this does NOT cover your:

"For example, is this a new coin you are training so it can perform with the others?
A bit of your imagination that escaped one night and you found it in your pocket change? "

the slightest, so I have to stick to my original remarks re *motivation* contra how you interpret it..

Sorry Jon, I can't reply back and explain more re this...

Reason I did not forward my thoughts via PM simply is I have a feeling several ppl are a bit "pi**ed off" re your *motivation*-query popping up often, and as I understand it, your explanation re how you interpret *motivation*, as you just explained using an actor as an example doesn't cover mine, mine simply is *logical* handling that makes sense to an audience and so they don't track back, they simply don't notice anything out of line/unnatural..

Maybe if you used another *term* then *motivation* it would be better understandable what exactly you mean..

I might be wrong, but you lost me when explaining the part where you ask for the coins motivation to do *this and that*...

I don't think performing magic should be *intellectual* but should give the audience and experience and each of them might have a different one, but in general they should be entertained and astonished how what they just saw is possible at all...

WERNER COMEBACK DON'T GO
the Café needs you.........
the godfather

An open letter to Jonathan Townsend, an email I forwarded already to him.

Jon is surely a nice guy, but nevertheless I don't agree with all what he says.

This is my final remark re this subject

**************************************************************
Jon,

just a few remarks re this, because we could go on for hours re this..

It's all an interpretation of what you call *motivation*..

If you ask *why* a coin vanishes or goes across, the reason is in *When I snap my fingers, the coin is gone*, or *If I wiggle my thumbs a coin passes from right to left*..

But ppl don't interpret YOUR *motivation* that way.....they get annoyed..
You can't ask *WHY does the coin go across*, that question is silly IMHO..

Why do we do magic???, aso.

Ppl do it for a lot of reasons, and some just for the fun, others for making a living and in this case they can't, IF they didn't have it earlier as a dear hobby!

Real art comes from the desire to do it, NOT from earning money!

One can't ask *Why this and that* all the time.

Why are we born, why do we live,aso..

Life isn't able to answer all those question easily..

*Why does a coin go across*??

The reason, NOT motivation, is, because I have fun in getting it going across and the specs have hopefully too, it is to entertain them, it's that easy...

Problem simply is how to interpret what you call *motivation*, a lot get annoyed by your constant question re the *motivation*..

They would understand if the reason for a certain move or handling is asked for and the reason has to be *logic*, not to arouse suspence, a smooth and natural handling that doesn't lead to any question from the specs, but that's another thing..

They simply accept/have to accept a coin is going from one site to another, because YOU want it to, by wiggling your thumb..THAT'S magic!!!

No offense, but you're looking at this- and you express so- far to academical..

It's entertainment and also this is a science, and art, it is not academical..

Magically yours,
Werner
PS. I'll post the above on the Café as my final thoughts re this subject..

The Oracle of Delphi pointed out Socrate to be the wisest man of his time because he would never stop asking ;-)

Hey, didn't they basically do away with Socrates or actually he did away with himself I remember. Maybe too many questions that he couldn't get answered. Hmmmmmm, wonder what his motivation was for deciding to drink hemlock, knowing it would stop him from doing the one thing that the Oracle thought made him the wisest man of his time...I guess it could be said that he basically took the words (questions) right out of his own mouth. The road goes both ways and then up at the fork, whichever way you want it to go.

"Why does the coin go across?" is an ambiguous question on several levels. It could refer to motivation, or teleology, or causality.

If causality, we often end up with silly cod sci-fi explanations, as discussed here often
If teleology, we end up with slightly childish "the coin wants to be with its friends" explanations
If motivation, it's ambiguous between the motivation of the coin, or the motivation of the performer. If the latter, isn't "because I can" good enough? Like the mountaineers' "because it is there"

I am honored to be compared to Socrates.

Here is a link to some about that ancient Greek and his fate: http://www.reemcreations.com/literature/socrates.html

IMHO, to justify one's actions with a statement that "one does what one does" is to equate oneself to a lower animal for that is all that they do and we treat them as such. One of the criteria by which we say we are MORE than the other animals is our ability to formulate principles, choose among principles and to argue for those principles.

I am sorry Slydini is not around for an interview on motivation. Neither is Al Goshman or Fred Kaps. Citing their works lures the lazy student to be a copyist and the clever student to find unlikely but none the less valid interpretations. We do have a few living champions of the one coin routine who may be open to discussing the questions" what do you wish others to believe is happening and why do you want to show others this thing"? If it's of use to folks, I will bring those questions to Sol Stone when next we meet. I'll send a note to Mike Rubinstein and Geoff Latta and ask if David Roth is up for discussing the thing. I've seen Bob Fitch do some of the routine and also Jerry Deutsch too. They may be willing to share their answers.

Now let's get to the marrow of this bone of contention. Is there meaning beyond actions? I argue that there is character and intention offered in all dramatic performances. I will argue by parallel, and offer a story in terms of action without reference to character or intention. Consider the following:

In a kingdom, the queen finds she prefers the king's brother and acts to have the king killed and then marries the brother. The son of the king proves to be an irritant in the court and is sent away. The son chooses to return and continues to disrupt the court. The King and Queen arrange to have the son killed in a duel. At the duel the poisoned cup of wine and the poisoned blade are misused and the entire royal family dies.

Okay, hardly a tragedy and if anything it might suggest a comedy. So what distinguishes the actions as described from the work that has survived in performance for over five hundred years? Character - personal history? Context? Intention? The theme of psychological denial and how it can direct actions? I argue that those are the elements which make a story both human and interesting.

As a gift to the truly clueless:
Consider that one might shine a coin by rubbing it on one's shirt, perhaps at the elbow. How might one react if the coin seemed to melt away when rubbed? Would one feel it if the coin traveled across one's back and down the other sleeve? What would one do if such a thing happened? If one already knows what to do in order to have this happen again, would one show this feat to others? Is this the first time it's happened? Is this a special coin?

You are the performer. You choose your character, context and personal history for the performance.

It's getting deep in here. Probably too deep for most.

Note: that was a sophisticated joke. I am agreeing with Jon.

Kirk

Firstly, I don't know about "too deep for most,"...never underestimate your opponent or his intelligence. There are the guys that can dunk the ball and the guys that can explain the physiology needed to do so...Most times, niether can do the others job very well if at all...Think God made it that way for a reason.

Secondly, You always agree with Jon, Kirk...

Note: And Jokingly - No need for sophistication, we're in a Café not 5 Star Restaurant.

I didn't realize I had any opponents on this forum. :-(
I don't "always" agree with Jon. Just today I sent him a strong email regarding the way I feel about certain plot lines. He hasn't written back since. ;-)

The need for the sophistication was to avoid triggering the hounds. Seems to have worked.

Kirk

MB217

How come your smile's are cartoons and mine are just text? I thought I followed the directions carefully.

Kirk