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Devilix Veteran user 372 Posts |
Hi all,
I just got a little question about a cups and balls routine. English is not my primory langage so I will try to be clear. I have been performing the David Regal Cups and balls (from is volume 2) since 3 weeks. Its my first Cups and balls routine that I do. Before showing it to anyone, I have pratice it about 50 hours. I really love my routine and the reaction is usually great. But I need your opinion about something. People, usually see my cups and balls routine like a tour de force with my hand. They usually said, wow man...your fast with your man. They also say " the hand is faster that the eye". I got a problem with this statement. Let me explain. I want to do magic. People see my cups and balls routine like a trick and not like magic. They don't feel its magic. They feel like Im just fast when its time to move the balls and the cups. Is it a mistake from me to expect them to see magic instead of sleight of hand? Is it because I don't do great that they don't see the magic ? Is this routine only built to be a sleight of hand tour de force? Hope that my statement and questions are clears. thanks Devilix |
Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
I have some advice for you:
1) Try going slower. Maybe you are going too fast. Perhaps in certain places, especially. 2) Can you videotape yourself? This could help you see yourself as others see you. Seeing yourself perform is not always fun, but it is always a good thing to help you. Do it, if possible!
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Magicmaven Inner circle 1235 Posts |
I couldn't have said that better myself Mark.
Mark is absolutely right, maybe you want to slow things down a bit. At the heart about 99% of all your spectators know that what you are doing is slight of hand, and so saying "wow you have quick hands" is really just a compliment. But, it is good that you realize this, as most routines are geered toward doing something magical, and not "fooling" or "tricking" someone. Try and make your magic look as clean and natural as possible. Make sure the moves aren't forced, you should have a reason for each move, or sequence. If you can make your routine natural, you will do really well(opinion). BTW, You have pretty good English. (this is just my opinion, keep in mind. Hope that helps)
rmaxgoodwin.com
https://rmaxgoodwin.com/ |
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
When they say "you have fast hands," you can say this.
Some people say "The hand is quicker than the eye. That's why you see so many people with black eyes!" Or not. Seriously, working slowly is a very good idea. Not too slowly, but slowly enough that it doesn't look like you are racing to get through the trick.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Mario Morris Inner circle Mario Morris 2044 Posts |
That is a great question.
I recommend a book called "Maximum Entertainment" by Ken Weber. It does not focus on C&B but rather how to become your best performer, when does a trick become magical, what will set you aside from other performers and so on. Mario |
Devilix Veteran user 372 Posts |
Thanks guys for you opinion.
I have watched myself about 15 times doing this effect and I don't think that I go to fast. I must say that my speech lower the speed of this effect. I think that when they say that I have fast hand, they assume that I have fast hand. Let me explain. If I do a f**** transfert and I make the ball vanish with the wand, some people (not all) assume that the ball is in the other hand. So they say that I got fast hand to switch the ball from hand to hand. Maybe (and I think that this is due with the fact that I have just performed this effect 5-6 times in front of a crowd) that some people (you know the ones who doesn't follow the effect but concentrate to your hands) can feal that sometimes I am palming or hidding something. Last mistake that I think I made, and I am happy that MagicMaven pointed that out, somewhere in my mind, I want to fool people. You know, I do not play the superstar or anything when I do magic. But, when you put 50 hours on a single effect, you want it to be perfect. I will try to not forget that I must concentrate on the entertaiment factor. Your comments are always welcome. Devilix |
BSutter Special user Sitting on a pile of 582 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-04-28 07:39, Devilix wrote: Be patient and persistent. I have been improving my presentation of Cups and Balls for the last 30 years. Bill |
what Special user Lehi, UT, USA 643 Posts |
Michael Ammar lectured at out magic club a couple of months ago. Afterward, I approached him to compliment him on how smooth his cups & Balls routine is (because it is extremely well done and smooth as is his entire lecture). He offered me a piece of advice which I am finding very helpfull indeed. He said that I should try practising to music. It turns out to be a very enjoyable way to practise. Sometimes I practise to the beat of the music, and sometimes not. It takes my mind off of the mechanics.
Magic is fun!!!
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Robert Kohler Special user Fayetteville, Arkansas 520 Posts |
Clearly it is not just how fast your hands are - it's the patter! A more magical patter - switching from a factual presentation to one with a sense of wonder will make it more magical. If you yourself are amazed at how impossible the penetrations, transpositions, and other effects are the audience will start to believe the same thing. When in doubt, amaze yourself and express it!
We judge ourselves by our intentions - others judge us by our actions.....
<BR> <BR>B. Wilson |
Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
Take it as a compliment. Not everyone is so "enlightened" to see the art in your work.
It reminds me of the line about the Clown who complains "Nobody takes me seriously!"
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Mr. Muggle Special user 999 Posts |
Michael Ammar goes into this in his audio tape series. He explains how to prevent the lay audience from commenting "boy you’re really fast", or "I'd hate to play cards with that guy". Ammar gives other tips besides the obvious tip to slow down and break apart your mechanics.
In the end you’re fighting against the layperson's thought process. You have to consider how to also manipulate their thoughts and reasoning- only then will you begin to overcome those comments. Take away their opinion & thought of "he must have done a secret move" & your on the right track to making your magic more “memorable”. You can begin by slowing down your slights, making deliberate motions and increasing your misdirection. While patter is a good point, IMO I don’t think that it’s entirely the problem- it’s 'usually' just icing on the cake. I’d recommend getting Ammar’s Audio Tape series next, it’s worth the money IMO and will give you more insight into changing the lay audience’s perspective. http://store.yahoo.com/ammarmagic/index.html MM
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
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chrisrkline Special user Little Rock 965 Posts |
Do not expect that every spectator will be fooled on every sleight, particularly one like a false Tr******. Obviously, the better you are, both at the technical side, and with your patter and presentation, the more likely they will "believe," but it won't be universal. What you are doing here is to make a ball vanish. You can use a FT, or you can use a different method. The spectator simply sees a vanish. Many routines employ wand vanishes because it allows you to keep the ball in the left hand when you do the vanish. This can keep someone from thinking along the lines of, "He must have kept the ball in the right hand." But even without a wand vanish, there are ways, through your patter and routine, to confuse the issue of what you might be doing when you vansish a ball.
Chris
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Devilix Veteran user 372 Posts |
Thanks guys for all your answers.
I think that there is a part of me who want to fool everybody. I know its not right and that I must change this attitude. I will work on this. Devilix |
chrisrkline Special user Little Rock 965 Posts |
Let me modify a little. When I say not everyone will be fooled, I simply mean that not everyone will, given enough time to think, grant you supernatural powers. For example, the specs should not see anything fishy with your false transfers, and with time, you can "fool" even the most skeptical observer. If the routine is structured right, they will have no clue what you did or even an idea that you even "did" anything. That is what is hard.
Chris
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Mario Morris Inner circle Mario Morris 2044 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-04-28 19:52, Devilix wrote: I think your attitude is good, you are aiming very high you are asking the right qwestions. In short, how can I take the C&B trick and make it magical? With this in mind you will never stop practicing. You will look at others that perform it, what works what does not. It is no easy thing to take this old trick and make it magical, it comes with practise, trial and era. Mario |
Avrakdavra Loyal user The Pine Tree State, USA 224 Posts |
Making the ball re-appear someplace else (e.g. under a cup) shifts attention away from the hand that is holding out--I find that when I am watching a well-paced routine, even though, if I were to stop and think for a moment, I could easily follow where the ball really has gone, my attention is instead carried along from move to move by the magician's skillful use of timing and directed attention.
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Burrich Loyal user 214 Posts |
The trouble is though that making a routine that is so well paced like that is really hard. At the minute I'm trying to break out of the classic sequences in a couple of places which is kinda hard but I am making progress.
To answer the original question I found that some people are amazed by the routine while others want to and can see what's happening sometimes. Practice sorts this out for the most part I'd say. I don't think it's about intelligence, though that might play some part. It's just that some people want to believe that magic is really happening while others don't. I want to make a routine so that the second you vanish you show the ball which is why I have eliminated two of the tip over loads in the classic one ahead tip-over opening sequence. Steven. |
Kent Wong Inner circle Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 2458 Posts |
When someone comments about how fast your hands move, they mean it as a compliment. When many people think of magicians, they think "the hand is faster than the eye". As a result, that's how they judge our quality.
But, as I read your question, that is really only a secondary issue. The key question is how to make the cups and balls magical. The key thing that I would suggest is to emphasize the impossiblity of the effect, in both your actions and your words. This will require some modifications to the David Regal routine. If you watch his video and focus purely on his patter and the pace of the routine, you will gradually understand why the effect is not as magical as it could be. For instance,: 1. The patter only tells a story (albeit a very entertaining one) about when he was a child. It does not directly engage the spectators at all. 2. The spectators never get a chance to touch the cups or the balls. This is a key shortcoming (in my opinion) since the props you use in the cups and balls routine are not "ordinary" props by any means. Since they don't look ordinary, spectators cannot relate to them. 3. The pace of David Regal's patter (and I realize this is part of his own personality) is very fast paced throughout the entire routine. In fact, the pace builds and builds and by the time you reach the climax, you are exhausted! There's nothing wrong with this since the pacing builds to an emotional climax as well as a visual one. But even with David Regal, after every phase, he pauses a little bit to let the effect sink in in the minds of the spectators. It's almost as if he's letting them catch their breath just a little bit. If you were to take this one step further, you may want to provide some incongruity to the pacing. This is much the same as Bill Malone's version of Three Card Monte where he tells the spectator that he's going to mix up the cards really really fast on the count of three. But then, his version of "really, really fast" is actually painstakingly slow. You could do this with the cups and balls as well, especially right before you produce the final loads. By acknowledging that it's the speed of the hand that fools the eye, while at the same time moving your hands really really slow, you psychologically strip that rationale away from the spectators. Once you do that, pause a moment and then produce the final loads. I've used portions of the David Regal routine for years and love it. In particular, I adopted the final load idea that he has in his routine. The routine itself has huge entertainment value. I hope these comments are of some assistance. Kent
"Believing is Seeing"
<BR>______________________ <BR> <BR>www.kentwongmagic.com |
Roland Henning Special user Kiel, Germany 511 Posts |
Style, its about style. The way the audience sees you. If you do flourishes, quick stuff and if you have a trickser attitude (like I do) the audience will see you as a "sleight of hand guy".
So if you want to be more magical, do more magical stuff. If I had to translate this into card magic, I would say, don't do a visual colour change, place the card face down on the table, rub it a bit and slowly reveal the change. Now, you have to retranslate this to the C&Bs. mmG Roland |
chrisrkline Special user Little Rock 965 Posts |
Steven, Let us know how the development of this goes.
There is something to be said for the traditional approach of vanishing the balls one at a time. Even skeptical observers have trouble keeping up. Unless you are flashing on the tip over move, the fact that you have a single ball that you just tipped off the top of a cup in one hand and the other empty, should eliminate in even the most cynical spectators that you just had a ball in the other hand. At the least it should slow them up enough for you to easily get to the revelation. If you add in some wand vanishes, or use some other technique to throw the spectators off scent, they should be completely baffled by the three vanishes. I think that at that part of the routine, the single revelation of the three balls under the cups is the big effect and should be left intact.
Chris
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