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Euangelion Special user 688 Posts 
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The effect comes down to the lesson I'm teaching Whit. I didn't want to lay out the whole story which helps to clarify what is happening. My work as Euangelion is significantly different than that of most in this thread. It is storytelling magic. It is not limited to Christian themes but includes Jewish, Buddhist, and other spiritual themes, also. It is using story and myth to help people bump up against the questions many, maybe most have about life and its meaning as we rub elbows with each other.
The piece in question is the most overtly Christian piece I do and is a tale of mystery that with Christ we are set free from sin and death and this is the gift offered and it may be received or set aside. The effect is that we receive what we choose without force or coersion, deliverence or entrapment. How it happens is mystery but we receive what we choose. The title of the piece is "Caught in the Garden."
Bill Esborn
"Lutefisk: the piece of cod that passes all understanding." |
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts
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I pretty much followed the message of the story, I mean what is the effect of the magic trick? Does the chain magically hold or release the finger at the will of the performer, is this a puzzle for the spectator to figure out which side is inside the loop of the chain and which is outside, or is it a con game where the performer uses tells and manipulation to either surmise what the spectator is going to do or to force him to do what you want. If there were no message or story, what would be the point of the magic trick?
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Euangelion Special user 688 Posts
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The effect is that despite what is seemingly a broad variety of choices far beyond the control of anyone except the volunteer what happens is exactly what is expected release if the person is holding the cross or entrapment if they are not. The how is is the ambiguity of mystery which is addressed in the script.
I guess one would say the effect is one being set fast or loose in relationship to the having or not having the cross.
Bill Esborn
"Lutefisk: the piece of cod that passes all understanding." |
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts
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The chain is then a sort of magic snare that no matter how one chooses will always trap you, unless you possess the magic talisman of the cross which will make the chain always release you regardless of how you choose?
Or does possession of the cross guide you in your decision, helping you to choose the correct way between two paths (bondage/freedom)? The reason I ask, is because story/message magic is always very difficult to pull off. It is difficult to do two things at the same time--to clearly outline the argument of the magic, and to illustrate and make clear and memorable the unrelated point that one wants to get across. If the magic effect isn't clear, then it isn't much of an illustration or help in expressing the message. It is easy say, for young people to take away the wrong message in the confusion. |
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cataquet Veteran user England 363 Posts
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I think fast and loose is a great gambling effect (like monte and the shell game). In my walk around presentation, the loops are placed around the spec's thumbs (I used to do the spec's wrist, but then Mike Gancia suggested that I just do it on their thumbs). In this case, the spectator confirms his choice by forming an O with the thumb and first finger.
In addition, most specs think that the secret is which cord you pull (ie, pull one cord and the left one catches, pull the other and the right one catches). To handle this objection, I have a ring on the loop which I pull. That way, the pulling point is established before the spec makes a decision.
Harold Cataquet
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-07-22 15:42, cataquet wrote: How does the spectator "know" that one loop will catch and the other will not? Isn't it obvious to them that sometimes both and sometimes neither loop will catch? How do you prove that the game is fair? Who wants to play a game that can be so easily rigged? Who would ever bet on it? |
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Euangelion Special user 688 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-07-22 15:40, Whit Haydn wrote: Whit, I agree with what you are saying 100%. That is why the script and the words are so important. If you are interested I'll e-mail you a copy of the script but I don't want to bore people here with a post of that length. As intimated in the original post the chain is the limits of creation, then the creature of time. It is the cross which makes release from entrapment/sin possible. It is a routine for adults and not kids.
Bill Esborn
"Lutefisk: the piece of cod that passes all understanding." |
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts
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I would love to see it.
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cataquet Veteran user England 363 Posts
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Whit, as you say, a 3 card monte or shell game is inappropriate for walkaround, but I find "fast and loose" is great if I want a walkaround gambling routine. Further to the "fairness" of my presentation, I put the chain over the right thumb, wrap it around the left thumb and then put the chain over the right thumb. It's very clear that the chain will catch on the right thumb and not on the left. I then repeat with the left thumb. So as far as the specs are concerned, if I toss it one way, one side catches, if I toss it the other, the other side catches. So, they are only aware of the one side catches, not the other two throws. I then say the secret to winning is partly anticipating which side I am going to choose, and partly not signalling (before I've thrown) the side that they are going to choose... However, I should point out that prior to getting into this, I give them the chain (with the ring on it), and have them hide the ring in one hand. I then proceed to tell them which hand it's in. However, my mock explanation is that I can read the slight variation in the tendons on the back of their hand. So, let's just use the chain... So, the audience interpretation is not that I can control which side catches, but rather that I can anticipate which side they are going to choose (refer back to the leadin effect with the ring on the chain).
Harold Cataquet
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts
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What keeps them from making the perfectly logical assumption that both loops will come loose or both loops will hold fast?
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cataquet Veteran user England 363 Posts
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I start with a very clear right side catch in my hand, and then I have them hold out their thumbs. They anticipate a right catch and while looking at their hands for "clues", I openly change it to a left side catch. Some of the other people will smile (having seen the switch), but I make sure that my head/body blocks the switch from the main spec. I then place the chain on their hand, and ask them to choose. They choose the right side, and I have someone else hold on to the left. The chosen side doesn't catch, but the other side does. At this point, someone will say "I saw you switch the sides". This is great because the spec has lost, and someone has confirmed that I switched sides (if I could throw a no sides catch, why didn't I throw it). Also, I should point out that my routine doesn't go on very long (no more than about 5 minutes, and that includes the ring location). Clearly, the longer the routine goes on, the more likely it becomes that someone in the audience figures out the existence of the other two throws.
So, Whit, in answer to your question, I could say "pure BS and a little bit of misdirection", but the truth is that it's a short routine, so the answer is time.
Harold Cataquet
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts
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Quote:
On 2005-07-23 20:04, cataquet wrote: I have used both as walk around entertainment in restaurants and at festivals - the works - for most of my life. As long as the audience, and your client know that you are a magician. Not a con man - And you do it in an entertaining way - I have found them to be very successful walk around effects!
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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cataquet Veteran user England 363 Posts
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Glenn, if you are performing walk around (where there is no table to perform on), where do you perform the shell game? That is, in a situation where the specs typically have a drink in their hand (and maybe some nibbly in the other), where's the performance surface?
Bye for now Harold
Harold Cataquet
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts
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I bring my own table. I have two. One that is wood and opens like a thin close up case and the other is just a think felt covered wood table. Small eurica base. I use both if the place doesn't have a table.
It is sort of like doing street magic inside. I hope this helps.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Euangelion Special user 688 Posts
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In this discussion I forgot to identify the material from which my in the hand tosses were derived. They are from Nick Trost's notes "Expert Gambling Tricks" and he credits the routine to Dennie Flynn.
Bill Esborn
"Lutefisk: the piece of cod that passes all understanding." |
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Erik Anderson Regular user Des Moines, Iowa 171 Posts
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I can say with absolute certainty that you can keep a crowd going for a VERY long time with the Fast and Loose. But Whit is correct, you HAVE TO sell the lie competely up front.
I can't tell you the number of times I've demonstrated the con only to reach the end of the routine and have to spend the next fifteen minutes doing it again and again and again for folks that demanded "just one more try. I've got it figured out. It's how the chain crosses ... !?! ... Okay one more time ..."
Erik "Aces" Anderson
"I never let my schooling get in the way of my education." ~ Mark Twain http://www.acesanderson.com |
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Posted: Jul 22, 2005 04:28 pm 
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