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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » F/X » » IPod vs. Walkman (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Majiloon
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IPod vs. Live venues for presentations;
10 reasons why I went back to the Walkman, (MD & CD).

After a few years of following the development and searching the forums, and weeding through the reviews, I finally bought my first 2 iPods in the winter of 2004 upon the advent of the “Click-Wheel” inception. I honestly wanted to incorporate this into my programs, because like any technophile will admit- this thing is cool! This is what I have discovered while trying to implement it into my live presentations in the 6 months since. Ya'd think after 'in the he biz for 25 years...

If you have followed the iPod from its inception, you would have seen many design flaws, some of which- now 5 years later have not all been addressed. Any close examination of the device will reveal it’s shortcomings when it comes to measuring up to the Walkman device which by the way has a 20 year head start on affordable durable dedicated/specific hardware.

The iPod is not an appropriate device to depend upon for a live presentation, as it has
1) Miserable battery life, and the battery extenders on the market are not adequate to rely upon. 2) It tends to re-boot on its own, rare but enough to be alarmed, (it only takes once).
3) The iPod could not withstand the riggers of everyday use while traveling from venue to venue.
4) If you travel – be prepared to bring your lap-top with you in case you need to do any last minute editing of the play lists, because you cannot edit your play list on the iPod.
5) If you drop it- good luck, there are no screws on this thing, and you NEED to send it in for repair- for everything, it’s not self-servicing.
6) If the Hard disc is damaged- you can’t replace it with another one- you’ll have to get it repaired or replace the whole thing for $300, and then re-install the play lists from your Lap top.
7) The iPod will shut down completely while waiting for a command after you paused it. This means an eternity before the iPod to re-boot in order to play the music again. There are remotes for the iPod- but none of them address this problem.
8) I have had 2 occasions in 4 months where the entire iPod needed to be reset because of being knocked around in my brief case. Fortunately I bought a service plan, and got instructions over the phone that do not exist in the manual. This operation was like reformatting the entire hard disc, and yes, I had to re-load all my play lists again from my laptop.
9) Uploading music from my iPod to my desk top after having it in my laptop is an adventure, be prepared to discover a new level of learning curve.
10) iTunes is where I keep my music, but I find that it is not always friendly to other programs or uploading services, or importing original music pieces, I’ll spare you the painful specifics. This wouldn’t be so bad, if only I had an analog input on the iPod so I could download whatever and whenever I need, but alas I finally succumb to realize after all these adventures, that this thing is only a downloading external drive that I.D. tags everything in order to police the downloading of the gold mine of the music on it’s iTunes.

I still like it, but I have concluded that this device, while snuggles in my hand, is appropriate for use in your home, car, on college campus, during slow periods at work, and while in the gym, (be very careful not to get it wet). It holds enough music for 10 lifetimes, and now photos.

But ultimately the truth about this product is that it was invented (dedicated/specific hardware) to generate money for music downloads just as Napster was taken down, (remember this?) and is meeting this purpose at a phenomenal pace. Unfortunately the folks at Apple are compelled only to follow the money and may never incorporate any of the superior design ideas that the Walkman has perfected that serve our industry so well already.

PS. I have full reports and interviews to post on my web site soon- if you want more info on these type of topics.

Cheers,
Kelly Duro
No longer taking Private messages , thank you.
Lyndel
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Kelly,

WOW! Thanks for posting that review! I am currently in the process of contemplating the purchase of an ipod for the use in smaller shows. After reading your post, I'm now very leary of taking the ipod plunge.

Currently I'm using a Wireless Wizardry Mini Tech along with a Mini Disk. I was also considering purchasing a Virtual Soundman to have some sort of back-up system in place should my Mini Disk ever develop a problem. It looks like this will be the way to go instead of the ipod.

I'm not an electronics wiz by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not a technophobe either. I do want something that is going to be dependable and is somewhat easy to use. I'm going to need to rethink the ipod.

Anyone else have an ipod useability/dependability experience they can share?


Lyndel
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knobjocky
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Just to put this post in context, Apple has sold over 2 million of these things
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/jan/06ipodmomentum.html

Also, when the $39.99 Airclick became available Majiloon decided to criticize it. Why? Because he himself had spent a huge amount of research and development to create a version of his own product to control the I-pod, When the guy was called on his slander he backs off,

Check it out here, it makes an amusing and insightful read.
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......&122

Here is a question, why spend mass R&D interfacing your own product to the I-pod when it sucks so bad?

I work in the music industry and there are many solo musicians using their I-pods on stage as backing music that they play along with for their working gigs.
Mine has been used in various environments 10 hours a day, thrown in a bag on the bus, It's been used on flights from the States to Germany, England, France, China and has never failed or gone flat when it was needed.
Lyndel
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wrote the theme to the TV show COPS!
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Knobjocky,

Thanks for the heads up! I read the entire thread!

Lyndel
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bloodyjack
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I agree my I-pod has been through a lot and going strong it does everything I need. The battery life has never been an issue. I do keep it charged when not in use.
"sir i sent you half the kidne i took from one woman prasarved it for you tother piece i fried and ate it was very nise i may send you the bloody knif that took it out if you only wate a whil longer"
glodmagic
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Kelly
Does this post mean ultimately that you will not support the iPod with your systems? I have seen the iCue on your website for some time with the words "preorder".
Just curious if you will release and support an iPod VSM as an available product or if your thinking has changed because of your opinion of the iPod.
Remember ANY of your posts here can be Googled by your customers and Clients. Just entering your name in Google can bring up your negative comments that stay for years!
Majiloon
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Yes-

I will support the iPod, and yes I have spent considerable resources on the iPod interface for over 18 months. This is what I do full time, and I have closely followed all the technologies surrounding it. I even own a G5 $6,000 Apple studio, and a Powerbook- free and clear! So logically- I wanted it to work out. But I am recommending the iPod be used only for emergency back up. Besides- the Walkman has a surprising advantage that the iPod will never have.

But I will not discuss it on this web site- or anything else for that matter from now on- I value my time much more these days. You’ll have to follow my site from now on, or catch me at a convention. My apologies, but I will no longer take PM from this web site.

If you want any more info so you can make up your own mind- I invite you to discuss it with me personally, and honestly.

Remember, I succeed when you folks succeed- all other shallow interpretation is just that- shallow.

Cheers, and thanks to those for whom I became friends,
Kelly Duro.
No longer taking Private messages , thank you.
Magical Dimensions
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Majiloon
You started this thread and now you are backing off because you value your time much more these days.


You are making a good case for knobjocky when he said.
Quote:
Because he himself had spent a huge amount of research and development to create a version of his own product to control the I-pod, When the guy was called on his slander he backs off


ANd you will not answer PM's anymore. WOW, I now have to agree that Knobjocky is correct.


Ray
Dan McLean Jr aka, Magic Roadie
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I am saddened to see that Kelly (aka Majiloon) has decided to not participate here any longer, for a couple of reasons. His knowledge, and his opinions.

Kelly has a full & magnificent understanding of both types of equipment in discussion here: playback & remote control. He uses scientific fact and considers anecdotal evidence, and while he does offer value judgements, those value judgements are guided by the needs of his customers. Some people have differing opinions, and I imagine that's because of different, yet equally-valid, value judgements, or an inferior knowledge of the technology, or maybe both.

Given that someone with Kelly's knowledge might have a client base with different needs, that person might make different value judgements. For example, Apple makes the iPod differently from MD & CD because they're trying to please a client base with a different set of needs. That doesn't make either one wrong. As a matter of fact, it makes each one virtually PERFECT for the target audience!

As I stated at the beginning of my post, I am saddened to see that Kelly has decided not to participate here any longer, for a couple of reasons. His knowledge, and his opinions. Kelly knows a great deal about playback devices and remote controls. His opinions help me to better understand a subject matter which is, at times, beyond me. I suspect we'll never see another person here at the Café with Kelly's knowledge. I still have a lot to learn from him, and I know that will be much more difficult without his sharing here, because questions & comments from each of us drew on his knowledge. I hope he'll come back.

I almost always keep my opinions to myself here at the Café, and that's because I know there are far too many people here (as in the rest of the world) who resort to personal attacks when a carefully-constructed, respectful counter-opinion/question would have done quite nicely, and I choose not to be attacked in that way. Kelly's not the first absolute expert we've seen leave here as the result of attacks, and I'm quite certain he won't be the last if we continue to meet opinion with attack. I've seen Kelly apologize here for thing's he'd said, so please don't think I (or he) think he's perfect.

What I'm proposing is that none of us ever "raise our typing voice", name-call, intimidate, make accusations, or otherwise behave in a way which is in-conducive to the sharing of ideas. I crave reading what each of you knows/thinks, and I am doing what I think is necessary to help keep everyone here.

Respectfully,
Dan McLean Jr

p.s.
If you are inspired to respond to this post, either positively or negatively, please do so in this public forum, and not by way of Private Message or email.
Dan McLean Jr
www.MagicRoadie.com
"Taking the mystery out of stage technology!"
b-gann
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I like the ipod but not the price
Mercury52
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IPods are offered in a range of prices from $99 to $450. Surely one of those fits your budget.

Kevin
Kevin Reylek
Magic.J.Manuel
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I am considering an Ipod / airclick purchase, but I like a CD/MD player because it has removable media.
I keep a backup CD with my current CD player that almost any audio system can play in a pinch.
Nothing would get done at all, if man waited so long that no one could find fault with it.
graemesd
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I'm considering using my PDA with the a built in mp3 player
can anyone tell me if that will work ok ive just bought a carlbro traveller too
I pressume I can buy the appropriate jacks
Amazing Magic Co
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I am happily using an iPod connected to a small PA with a RF RemoteRemote2 (http://www.engineeredaudio.com/products/remote2.html) I am anxious to get a Virtual Soundman but for now this fits my budget.

Dan.
Majiloon
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Thanks, Dan,

I really do appreciate your outspokenness, and if there is anyone that I would not like to offend, it would be Dan. I have the utmost respect for you, and I apologize to any one else who may be reading this who wants to engage in a constructive discussion.

I would like to point out some glaring benefits about the mini disc technology with respect to (us) variety performers/speakers especially.

We have to be careful these days about emerging technologies especially when we as performers need the best equipment available to do the job right and be flexible enough to be there IN A PINCH and for the long haul.
Many people over the years told me they would rather use a Pro deck- because they wanted all those benefits- but hated the clumsy size and weight- well now you can have your cake and eat it too! - Read on…

This is what I do for a living now- as I have been intensely following these technologies for some time, so much so that I now know what the future looks like- well before you find out.

I have always been sold on the Mini Disc technology, but in the last 2 years it has taken a dip- but I did not loose hope because I looked forward to today. To me- It is so obvious - the overwhelming advantages of the Mini Disc recorders (now particularly the 2nd generation HiMD) which seem to me to be one of those rare accidentally perfect devices for our purposes- compared to everything else, including the HDD players from Apple, and yes even the Sony NWHD series: Click Here!

(Which is slightly better than the iPod, but anti climatic), Creative Labs, Rio, ect… It is hard for me to get it across, and at the same time overcome the overwhelming prevalent preconceived bias and the iPod ogling - I see here so much.

Okay- If you want to do an honest and open-minded look at the technology for yourself. Here is a link for the 2nd generation HiMD- I just got one myself, and put my Sony HDD, iPod, and other devices in a drawer for good.
Click Here!
Click Here!
http://www.minidisc.org/hi-md_faq.html
http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/5659

This New model is sitting in my studio, as I have been having a lot of fun working with it. I am amazed at the new price point for their top model, but even more amazed at the sheer innovation. This is without a doubt the most advanced “Portable” MD, (now HiMD) recorder ever made- and for the first time- they have been able to make a miniature Pro-deck that fits in the palm of my hand! The MZ RH10
http://www.minidisc.org/part_Sony_MZ-RH10.html
http://www.planetminidisc.com/mz-rh10.html

This 2nd generation HiMD technology improvement is the most significant development since the invention of it in the 12 years it has been around. No- the Mini Disc is not going away. It may not be readily on the shelves at Circuit City, but North America is not the center of the Universe (wake up, smell the coffee)- Japan is where portable electronics industry flourishes- always has, we always get the stuff last and only get a few select leftovers- …Take advantage of this information while you can.

Benefits of the (2nd Generation) HiMD --over HDD downloader’s (iPod, Sony NWHD series, Creative labs) AS it pertains to our direct benefit over all.

1) Unlimited storage- not constrained by a single hard drive
2) You can edit the disc right in palm of your hand, anywhere anytime- even if someone were to lock and stuff you in a suitcase without power- food or water.
3) You can dub music last minute from any source- Digital or analog
4) Great battery life no less than 50 hours on one AA battery!
5) Not prone to re-booting
6) Dedicated hardware to the specific tasks, brilliant firmware without snags, thus making it far less prone to FTC (failure to commit to a command)
7) Durable construction and will withstand dropping without internal damage to substrate- or a Hard disc.
8) Never needs to be reset, or re-formatted.
9) Construction of the device has been crafted over 25 years for those who wear it while they give it a workout.
10) Lighter more portable
11) Much more affordable and replaceable as little as $30
12) If your player breaks, and you don’t have a spare, or you loose it- chances are the facility has a player (CD and even MD decks)
13) NEW!!!- Now you can now upload/Rip your music from the HiMD onto your computer via USB- even if it is original music recorded onto the HiMD by Microphone. This is a first for MD burner Open MG.
14) If you want to avoid the computer altogether and all the ID tags and SCMS limitations- then you have an input socket for digital or analog recordings- wow- good-by “Big brother”… Hello Freedom!
15) The compression is better quality than MP3- and the ATRAC3+ PCM or HiSP is the answer to the audiophiles like me. YES it will handle MP3 now.
16) HiSP will give us 7 – 16.5 hours of excellent quality of music (292-132 kbps @ 16 bit, 44.1 kHz stereo) on ONE disc and is still excellent playable quality while amplified over a PA system. That’s more than enough space for every conceivable play list 4 times over- why do you need more?!

Note-
Sony’s software is getting better, and has been since October of 2004 with improvements every 6 weeks. As a result of the iPod (MP3) competition, Sony’s software is only going to get easier. Heck- I mentioned that you could now upload (number 13)- you can’t do that with the iPod- and never will.

Some of you who have been familiar with MD may be a little confused by the compatibility issues regarding MDLP and HiMD, but I can help- as I have for hundreds over the years when MD was first introduced.
If you are now just getting into the Mini Disc technology- then you are better off not knowing what came before. But if you give it a half a chance- you’ll both really love this new “Pro-Deck” in your ‘palm’ technology!

If all this seems too complicated- it’s not- just think of the Mini Disc technology as a genetically altered Tape recorder that was cloned from a CD Pro-Deck. Now you get the benefits of both in a tiny, durable package- but priced from $150-$249!

Further clarification can be obtained in my free reports coming out in the next 3-4 weeks, or call. I won’t be taking any PM’s here- use my personal one instead.

Until I see you at a convention or lecture, signing off-

Cheers
Kelly Duro
No longer taking Private messages , thank you.
magicbyswh
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I have a sony MD, I need to split a song, what I mean is I have a song on a CD that is saved on musicmatch. I only need the second have of the song on the Sony MD. How do I cut the song in half and just record the 2nd part on the MD. Any help is appreciated.
Steve
Creator of Cereal Brainwave, Creator of the Tossed out Book
what
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Quote:
On 2005-05-10 10:32, magicbyswh wrote:
I have a sony MD, I need to split a song, what I mean is I have a song on a CD that is saved on musicmatch. I only need the second have of the song on the Sony MD. How do I cut the song in half and just record the 2nd part on the MD. Any help is appreciated.
Steve


use some PC software like SoundForge. I'm sure that there are other packages as well.
Magic is fun!!!
Farrell
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First off The I pod mini is reasonably Priced does all the functions a regular 20-40 gig I pod does and is about half the price. There fore it is not horrible to replace. I was wondering if your Icue is compatible with the Ipod mini?
Dan McLean Jr aka, Magic Roadie
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Quote:
On 2005-05-10 19:40, Farrell wroteI was wondering if your Icue is compatible with the Ipod mini?

Farrell,
I don't think you'll find that Majiloon will repsond to our question (as explained above), but if you email or call him, via his site, I'm sure he'll be glad to help with your questions.
Cheers & good luck!
Dan McLean Jr
www.MagicRoadie.com
"Taking the mystery out of stage technology!"
Majiloon
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In other news regarding portable players and their usefulness to us-

If it weren’t for Steve Jobs cornering the market in Malaysian on the 1.5 inch Toshiba hard drives in 1998- we would be talking about the Creative Labs MP3 player instead of the iPod. The future of the iPod is going to dramatically turn in the next 24 months. Evidenced by the sharp downturn they are suffering in the market place where they owned 96% just 4 months ago, now it is down at least 6 points. The iPod is going to have to compete with Bill Gates and the cell-phone MP3 players that are already swarming in the UK and other overseas markets:
Click Here!
Apple knows this and has been spending enormous resources for quite some time now- to launch their own version;
http://www.mobilegazette.com/motorola-e790-rumours.htm

The iPod is already downsizing into Flash- and still may refuse to incorporate the camera lens it was supposed to put in its Color version. The iPod is going smaller, and will end up as jewelry accessories like watches, and headgear. The HDD platform will still be salable but with a lot less aggressive design improvements. I see a spawning of companies that will sell their services to Hack into the iPod eventually. I am not saying that your iPod is doomed, or that it will die. I am just demonstrating my previous comment while defining the term “Popular trends”. Remember a skyrocket always flashes brilliance at first but it has to come down to earth sooner than you think.

However companies that dedicated long term steady growth with their products always have an advantage- as they are in tune and with the customers needs and are compelled to do so. As a result they have the resources to accommodate changing needs for them in the long run.

Creative Labs is where the HDD music player is going to stay strong after the cooling of the iPod. I have always believed that they are the better product, and this latest installment proves it hands down. If you want the best- check out this little wonder;
Click Here!
From an; engineering – meets consumer needs basis- this is the best way to go.

And yes- the iCue will operate it remotely- as it will for any MP3 player that has a remote/headphone interface, i.e. Dell Jukebox, ect…

Cheers,
Kelly Duro
No longer taking Private messages , thank you.
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