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bishthemagish
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Not talked about to much among card magicians and not written to much about in many card books. Marlo had a chapter in seconds centers and bottoms about multiple deals.

I wanted to learn how to deal thirds after reading in the Vernon Chronicles 4. In the book Vernon said that Old Dad Stevens could deal thirds. That made me want to do it and it started me thinking.

If I were a card shark like Old Dad Stevens how would I use the third deal to cheat in a poker game. Since most card sharks want to get two of a kind or three of a kind as an advantage. I would assume that Old Dad Stevens could use his Stevens cull to bring two of a kind to the top of the deck.

Or peak at the top card and bring a matching card to make two of a kind on the top of the deck. Shift the cut and then just use the third deal and then the second deal to give him two of a kind.

I can only imagine what a crooked dealer could do with a third deal in a game of Texas holdem. In Texas holdem the dealer isn’t a player but I can imagine what a crooked dealer could do with a third deal if he was partners with one of the players.

I have used the third deal as a way to produce two selected cards. By spelling the cards, by spelling a person’s name, by having them name a number and then counting down the number, or two numbers.

But mostly it has become part of a Texas holdem demonstration and is now followed with my River Poker deal that I wrote up in the secret sessions section of the café.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Paul H
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Hi Glenn,

I also like the idea of dealing thirds. Its on my list of false dealing sleights following center dealing, overhand and riffle culling and stacking, the punch deal and bottom dealing from the master grip. I believe Jack Carpender has a very interesting routine in Modus Operandi called 8 kings which gives me a powerful incentive to learn this deal. Now you've got me thinking about how it might apply to Texas Hold'em. I've really got to slow down.

Best Regards,

Paul H
tommy
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Hi Glen

Maybe it was used with Edge Marked Cards at the table by some super cardsharp. Smile

Tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
bishthemagish
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Hi Tommy and Paul H - I do not know but I think that Erdnase mentions dealing thirds in the book Expert at the card table as just a passing thought. Having two of a kind on the top of the deck and then hold out or shift the cut then dealing thirds would be an advantage at the card table.

I have seen Jimmy Cards Molinari do multiple deals at a lecture back in the old days. And Ackerman do it on one of his video's. As a demonstration I have had good audience response because if set up right by doing seconds - and that blows the audience away - then top it with a third deal... It can build and be a strong part of a demonstration.

Just because the public has not heard of the third deal like they have a second deal and a bottom deal.

By the way I worked out a new idea for the bottom deal called the scissor bottom and it is working out very nicely - I will post video on it soon at my web site.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Alejandro Peterson
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Fernando Keops covers a little the third deal in his dvd "The master class" using a convination of the push of second and the straight second deal
bishthemagish
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Hey Tommy and Paul H - the scissor bottom video is now at my web site below. I really like this way of doing the bottom deal.

Enjoy!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
tommy
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HI Glen

Pleaase Help! I can not find it Glen. I have just been having a great time looking at all your stuff but I do not seem to see the one you refer to.
Am I looking on the right page:
"Glenn Bishop's Scrapbook And Magic Video Theater!"
If so what is the name of the video.

Regards

Tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
bishthemagish
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In the scrapbook video theater...

click...



Click Here For Glenn Bishop Doing Vernon's Multiple Shift And Glenn Bishop's Scissor Bottom Deal!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
Hippie
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Hey Bishop just visited your site nice stuff. That scissor bottom is interesting. I see you use a Doc Elliot grip for the deal. Does it make it easier for you to use the fingers as thongs almost?
jcards01
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The grip used her is actually the "Straddle Grip" Bottom. The one preferred by Dr. Elliot who did it flawlessly.
Jimmy 'Cards' Molinari
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tommy
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Thanks Glen

I will have to get some new specs. Just off see it now.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
bishthemagish
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Yes it is the straddle grip but I changed the take on it with the right hand. I took the idea from the center deal take. Using three fingers on the right hand pushing up on the bottom card - the right hand corner of the deck. First finger on the top - three fingers at the bottom - like a scissors take.

I remember at Vernon’s lecture his idea was to give as much attention to the take as the grip and the method.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
tommy
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That's very cool Glen! I have picked it up straight away. I think the forefinger acts like a blind or misdirection or what ever the term. It looks a bit of an unatural way of dealing but it is still very cool I think.

Thanks Glen
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
SecondDealer
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I'm new here, first post actually... I'm building a routine based on card cheats. The explosion of Hold'em kinda made me think about the "old" days of cheats. I am thinking about starting with a cups and balls that goes to a 3 shell and then a Monte and into cards. An all around hustle routine I guess. I have not worked it all out.

Anyway, this is an interesting discussion to me. I thought about a third deal and moving two cards to the top together. But I'm wondering if a second deal and then finishing with a bottom deal would be just as effective and maybe more reliable? Alan Ackerman also has some shuffle techniques for positioning cards at set distances down in the deck. So a straight deal first with a bottom deal for the flop, 4 of a kind Aces.

What would be the pros and cons of a third?
bishthemagish
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I have found doing it this way gives great cover for the move. I think the first write up for the straddle grip was in Phantom of the card table by Eddie McGuire. Marlo had some stuff with the straddle grip. And of course what has inspired this is the Elliot Bottom in the Vernon Ultimate Secrets of card magic.

The first time I had seen someone deal using the straddle grip was Jimmy Cards Molinari at Mr. C's Magic Lounge many years ago. Steve Taylor took a bunch of us from our magic shop to meet and watch Jimmy do his card magic.

Boy what a night that was!

I have found that his take will become a natural way to deal cards with practice.

Enjoy!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
jeline
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The new lecture DVD by Jason England and Paul Wilson has some work on dealing thirds.
JasonEngland
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Quote:
On 2005-05-05 19:49, bishthemagish wrote:
Hi Tommy and Paul H - I do not know but I think that Erdnase mentions dealing thirds in the book Expert at the card table as just a passing thought. Having two of a kind on the top of the deck and then hold out or shift the cut then dealing thirds would be an advantage at the card table.


Bish,

I would love to be proven wrong, but I'm almost certain that third dealing is NOT mentioned in Erdnase, nor is it hinted at by the author. The third deal is one of my favorite moves, and I'm almost certain I would have seen that comment if it was indeed in the book. If you know of a reference in Erdnase, please find it and share.

Also, if you're interested in the book, please visit this page on my website and give me some feedback:
nls.physics.ucsb.edu

I have almost every edition of Erdnase that has ever been published on there, with 2 or 3 exceptions that I intend to correct shortly.

Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
bishthemagish
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Your right Jason dealing thirds is not mentioned in Erdnase.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention...
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
steve j
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The one way that I deal thirds is with a tiny hole in the top card so my finger is touching the second, from there its just like dealing seconds.
slakk
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About ten years ago at the Magic Castle, I saw Tony Giorgio demonstrate thirds, fourths, and even fifths. They were flawless. He said that they have no practical use at the card table, just another magician's fantasy of what takes place in gambling world.
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