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tommy
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Just after that he lost all his money in a poker game to a magician. Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2005-05-06 20:07, slakk wrote:
About ten years ago at the Magic Castle, I saw Tony Giorgio demonstrate thirds, fourths, and even fifths. They were flawless. He said that they have no practical use at the card table, just another magician's fantasy of what takes place in gambling world.

Not to start an argument but I have used the third deal that I demo at my web site in a safe game of draw poker with other players. I also have used it and it got past both Jack Pyle and My Dad who were very good card players. In fact my Dad used to deal blackjack in Chicago before the casino's came in as a side job.

I think what will fly in a real game depends on who is dealing and who is playing. I have seen Jimmy Cards Molinari deal the multi-deals including fifths very nicely. Vernon talks about Old Dad Stevens being able to deal thirds in his fourth book as mentioned above.

I also met Carl Jackson who could also third deal in a game, and he used the punch work of Walter Scott and made a living with it. Plus his shift and bottom were also moves that paid his bills too.

What will fly in a poker game depends on both the players and the person doing the moves. But they also do the moves at their own risk!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
magicsteve99
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For those who do not have the patience to learn to deal thirds, there is a heist version of the sleight that uses two sets of similar cards like the 7H and 8D, 7D and 8H. Not the real thing, but convincing enough to make an entertaining demonstration of "skill" .
Paul H
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I would also like to mention that Jason England describes an ingenious and easy way of dealing thirds on The Unreal Work DVD. One of the reasons why I intend to learn thirds and forths is to facilitate my obsession with culling and stacking. To be able to table or roman riffle cull three or four a kind to the top of the deck and then deal them out to yourself or a partner as part of a gambling routine is right up my street. I can do this with a bottom deal or center deal when I'm brave enough. I'm working on a way of culling and stacking in the same move but I'm not yet able to deal the cards off the top as it were.

I do agree with Glenn about the practicality of thirds and forths in a real game. It does very much depend on the knowedge and skill of the people sitting around the table with you as well as your own ability to execute the moves flawlessly. Any intention to use sleight of hand at the table must in my view, be subject to a scouting out of the conditions and calibre of people playing. The move or moves then need to be tailored to the type of game being played. The more I get into all this, the more there is to learn. For me its a case of so many sleights, so little time!!

Regards,

Paul H
card123
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If dealing thirds at the table was just fantasy.

Why did gamblers invent it?

Why did stevens do it?

Or maybe stevens was really a magician.I have it on good authority that his dove act was first rate.
Paul Sherman
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How do we know it was a gambler and not a magician?

Who said Stevens did it?

I think the 3rd is a neat move, and it probably has magical application, but I'm inclined to believe Giorgio. I'm no expert, but it seems to me most of the uses described for the 3rd deal here would be better served by the bottom deal.
"The finished card expert considers nothing too trivial that in any way contributes to his success..." Erdnase



some youtube videos
bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2005-05-07 09:54, Paul Sherman wrote:
How do we know it was a gambler and not a magician?

Who said Stevens did it?

In the Vernon Chronicles Book 4. page 165 - The chapter on Old Dad Stevens - "He did other things to. He dealt thirds beautifully; seconds bottoms shifts. Absolutely Marvelous".

I as the reader feel that Stevens "used" his third deal at the card table.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
tommy
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I have not heard of it being used at the table but I have only known one cardsharp. It sounds a good move to me. I can not do it.
The reason it is better than a bottom deal is gamblers use a cut card on the bottom in high stakes poker.
I would use it if I could do it well enough for sure.


Tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
card123
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Vernon aslso said on the revelation videos that he met a gamler who dealt thirds.

If I had a good third I wouldn't have a problem using it.

Its just like a second.

Paul,

Pick up the revelation videos.They are worth it.There is a guy called Dai vernon on there.He talks about the sleight and who used it.

If you like them try a copy of 'Expert at the card table' by S.W.Erdnase

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det......n=507846

Its worth the money.

But start off slow pick up a copy of royal road to card magic.And STUDY it.

don't just skim over it like most do.

Also check out this section of the Café Smile

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewf......e227d1c9
tommy
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There are guys called Dai Vernon and Erdnase! These guys sound interesting. Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
SecondDealer
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A cut card on the bottom does not stop a bottom deal. For dealing I find Martin Nash is amazing. It was from his DVD I learned to deal a Black Jack from the bottom with an inverted card on the bottom of the deck. It's basically a second bottom deal.
Paul Sherman
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Quote:
On 2005-05-07 11:15, card123 wrote:
Paul,

Pick up the revelation videos.They are worth it.There is a guy called Dai vernon on there.He talks about the sleight and who used it.

If you like them try a copy of 'Expert at the card table' by S.W.Erdnase

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det......n=507846

Its worth the money.

But start off slow pick up a copy of royal road to card magic.And STUDY it.

don't just skim over it like most do.

Also check out this section of the Café Smile

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewf......e227d1c9


Thanks for the advice Cards. I'll check those books out. Can you tell me the 5 best tricks in them?
"The finished card expert considers nothing too trivial that in any way contributes to his success..." Erdnase



some youtube videos
bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2005-05-07 09:54, Paul Sherman wrote:
I think the 3rd is a neat move, and it probably has magical application, but I'm inclined to believe Giorgio. I'm no expert, but it seems to me most of the uses described for the 3rd deal here would be better served by the bottom deal.

Thank you for bringing this up Paul. I am also no expert or claim to be an expert. I am only a student of this kind of material. I also have played cards in my past. Most games I have been in had about eight players. The reason is to build the pot.

The bottom deal looks better when dealt with less than a full deck. If there are lots of players in a game like eight to ten this can be an advantage for a bottom dealer. The reason is more players the cards are used up faster as the first cards are dealt to the eight to ten players. So when it comes time to deal a bottom after a few rounds dealt - there is less cards in the deck - then the card shark can bottom deal easier.

The third deal has the advantage that if Stevens got two of a kind to the top with his Stevens cull then he could shift the cut or do the hop. Then deal thirds and end up with two of a kind.

From the few card sharks I have met most of them are after two of a kind or three of a kind for themselves or a friend. If they can deal thirds this could be done with a full deck - an advantage to this third deal in a less player situation. Thinking how the cheat might use the moves has helped me come up with ways to use these moves in magic.

I hope this helps.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
card123
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Quote:
On 2005-05-06 15:22, JasonEngland wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-05-05 19:49, bishthemagish wrote:
Hi Tommy and Paul H - I do not know but I think that Erdnase mentions dealing thirds in the book Expert at the card table as just a passing thought. Having two of a kind on the top of the deck and then hold out or shift the cut then dealing thirds would be an advantage at the card table.


Bish,

I would love to be proven wrong, but I'm almost certain that third dealing is NOT mentioned in Erdnase, nor is it hinted at by the author. The third deal is one of my favorite moves, and I'm almost certain I would have seen that comment if it was indeed in the book. If you know of a reference in Erdnase, please find it and share.

Also, if you're interested in the book, please visit this page on my website and give me some feedback:
http://www.nls.physics.ucsb.edu/~nathanb......dex.html

I have almost every edition of Erdnase that has ever been published on there, with 2 or 3 exceptions that I intend to correct shortly.

Jason


On page 31 , half way down the page Erdnase says... and I quote

------"Although becoming adept at second dealing is as difficult a task that can be giving in card handling to the professional the 3rd deal is "the Dogs Bollo*ks"
don't overlook it I have used this move in the fastest company and in the roughest of ghettos.
So 'I' Tom smith am saying cheat those M*tha F***ers anyway you can."------


I like many of you have no idea who this erdnase is but he sounds as if he knows what he's talking about.

Jason , I hope this helps.Remember to read and STUDY the text CAREFULLY.Its surprising what some people overlook.
bishthemagish
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Thank you for this information card123...
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
millusions
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Btw, a second from the bottom is called a greek. I recomend that you observe Martin Nash's "a night coincidence". it has a great example of using a third in a practical fashion at the table.

Thanks
Mike
:smoke:
cardandcoin
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Card123-i just checked my copy of erdnase and it does not say the things you said.do I have a different edition?
tommy
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No, just a different sense of humour.

Tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
card123
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Quote:
On 2005-05-14 09:46, millusions wrote:
Btw, a second from the bottom is called a greek. Thanks



Where I come from a second from the bottom is called kinky!
iamslow
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Fred Robinson has a great method for doing his greek deal, Im not sure where its published, but a friend of mine showed me and it kicked ***... he did it fast and smooth... it looked better than most bottom deals out there...
"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
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