I strongly disapprove of using or even touching these props for any purpose. What are your opinions on these cards. Not trying to create havoc just wanting to get ideas from others on this subject.

If you use playing cards then you can use Tarot cards as they are basically the same thing.

Tarot cards were created sometime in the early fifteenth century (presumably about 1420) and were used exclusively for playing a card game named tarocchi, which by the way was the first card game to use the taking of trick. The 22 atouts (what is now called the major arcana) were added to the regular pack of cards in existence at that time.

There was nothing "occult" about the images of these cards, they simply represented common symbology of the day just as the suits of cups, swords, staves (wands) and coins (petacles) represented the four classes of society (respectavely clergy, noble, peasent and merchant) at that time.

There association with fortune telling and the occult did not occur until the 18th century when Antoine Court de Gebelin decided (with absolutely no evidence to support his claim) that they were an ancient religious artifact that had been lost for generations. The modren packs with their quasi Egyptian and occult symbology were not created until 1909 by A. E. Waite, a Christian mystic.

There is nothing evil nor satanic about Tarot cards as long as you use them for their original purpose of game playing unless of course you belong to one of those medieval sects who believed that any form of game playing (i.e. gambling as it was one and the same in the Renaissance) is the work of the devil.

Excellent historical lesson Payne. Thank you!

And I agreee, as Payne rightly states, there is nothing evil or satanic about the cards themselves. They are just printed pasteboards.

However, in my opinion Tarot cards today have a widely recognized primary purpose that is in direct conflict with a Biblical Christian view.

So you have to ask; What do you gain with them? What do you lose without them?

As a Christian, I see little to gain, that can't be gained otherwise, and especially considering the potential for misunderstanding, and the possibility leading another astray.

I have enough Card tricks, using standard playing cards whose commonly recognized use today is playing games, that I personally don't feel it is necessary to walk that fine line between right and wrong, fooling around with Tarot Cards. As an aside, I don't own a Ouija board either.

I agree hawkbird, I don't like to even see them, and see no reason to handle them.

But I do have a couple of nice effects using baseball cards, and I have no problem with them! Unless they are NY Yankee Cards!

BroDavid

There are many Tarocchi decks manufactured that do not have the traditional atouts. instead of The Fool, The Magician ect... they are simply numbered 1 through 22 and generally feature double ended pictures of daily life. I even have a set that features the famous French comic characters Asterix and Obelix.

These decks still have the larger aspect ration of the traditonal Tarot cards (being slightly larger than a standard poker deck and have the traditonal French suits of clubs, spades, diamonds and hearts, however, they are generally more elegant looking and feature splendid court cards.

If you are looking for a set of cards that have an olde tyme feeling to them, harking back to the early nineteenth century then I would go with a set of these. Piatnik of Austria still manufactures these cards. Also if you are a collector of playing cards they make an interesting addition to ones collection.

I think it's all in what you do with the cards. I agree that the ideas most people have about tarot cards are ones of fortune telling and so forth, which is why I personally don't use them. Although regular playing cards may have derived from the tarot, I don't think most people make that association, so I feel it's ok.

The way I look at it, if something I do comes across wrongly to someone, then I will do my best to change that, and if it reflects badly on me for using tarot cards, or it portrays the wrong ideas of what I'm doing, then I won't use them.

So far, I've never had anyone get the wrong impression with a deck of cards, so it all works. Why would you need to use tarot cards for magic anyway unless you were doing some type of fortune telling effect? Most any idea or concept can be expressed with regular cards, so I'll stick with them...

I try to remember that everything is permissible, but not necessarily beneficial.
(Which is basically what BroDavid and CardMSG stated.)
I can remember when I use to be somewhat radical in regards to what I presented, but since that time, the Holy Spirit has taught me to be more sensitive regarding the feelings of my audience. I'm still radical, but a sensitive radical!
(Thanks for the history lesson, Payne...most interesting.)

Andrew

If you feel uncomfortable using any prop then you shouldn't use it. Likewise you must take into account the audience you will be performing for.

In this forum you are talking about spreading a Christian message. Some Christians in the audience might well have a problem with Tarot cards.

However if you have a particular routine that requires Tarot cards then it will be necessary to have a framework where the cards will be acceptable.

Remember the story used about playing cards,
how they can be used as a calendar for farmers, a game to pass the time , a game of skill for others, used to swindle by conmen, used by soldiers to remind them of references to the Bible?

It is all in the interpretation.

Things in themselves are neutral. It is our thinking and belief that makes them good or bad.

This discussion of Christians doing magic with Tarot Cards is very interesting. And I having already said so, I agree that there is nothing intrinsically evil about the cards.

But I see them, as being "slippery slope" items. And my advice would simply be to stay away from them; Even the "Narrow Road" has enough space in the middle, that a Christian should not find himself constantly teetering for balance on one edge or the other.

BroDavid

What purpose in magic or illusion would they be used for?

I have to agree that you're probably better off without them. History doesn't matter, because few people know that. I think it would definitely raise eyebrows in any gospel magic situation if you were to break out anything even resembling a tarot card deck.

If you need cards with pictures on them, why not make your own?

I disagree completely with so-called "PAYNE" but agree with the original posting that Tarot cards are completely evil.
Ask yourself this...would Jesus Christ be caught dead with a pack of tarot cards?

Thank you all for your input on the subject of the Tarot, as with all magic, it is up to the individual performer to decide what does and doesn't work for them personally.