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Profile of NJJ
What moves would you deem as useless to the professional tablehopper?

You know those moves that make you roll your eyes when you see them in a routine.

-Tenkai Palm
-Back palming
- Snap change.
Lee Darrow
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Chicago, IL USA
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Profile of Lee Darrow
Sorry to disagree, but I use the Tenkai Palm and lapping quite a bit in table-to-table work. I've even used the snap change on occasion, depending on the terrain.

For me, Goshman Pinch is right out, though (I just have problems with it for some reason) and I am in complete agreement with you about back palming, especially with ropes! Smile

Lee Darrow, C.H.
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!"
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Profile of Daegs
I disagree, I use tenkai, lateral and even a backpalm during a table hopping set....
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Profile of NJJ
Don't you worry about angles? The places I work I never know WHO is looking over my shoulder!

I once finished a set to find a guy's face about 20 cm from my ear! Apparently he'd been there the whole time!
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Profile of ithomson
I backpalm a coin during table hopping (I prefer that to a backclip). Also, edge grip and curl palm. So I assume you're talking about cards ....

Michael Baker
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Near a river in the Midwest
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Profile of Michael Baker
I use a Tenkai Palm, lapping (when seated, ha-ha!), and a Goshman/Tenkai Pinch. I usually know who is looking over my shoulder. Got in the habit of stealing glances when the spectators at hand are eyes to the table (or other center of focus). It's a great "in" to your next tables if you can catch an eye. The peripheral advantages include the problems mentioned here. Always know what (or who) is inside your perimeter.

Angles are usually what you make them. Learn to manipulate your environment, as well as your props.

Useless moves??? One man's trash is another's treasure!!

~michael baker
The Magic Company
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Profile of Vraagaard
Tenkai Palm is great for cards and jumbo coins. Don't dump it - but it takes a while to grow comfortable with it, just like getting comfortable with regular palming.

Goshman pinch - yes indeed couldn't live without it. Sankey's Mr Clean Coins across just kills. But again it's a move that takes months to master in a relaxed and smooth manner.

I never use any real passes though. I found easier way's to control cards to the top or bottom, so I saved my time learning these moves. I found it all about handling the deck in a natural way, and give credible reasons for what you do. It's easy to get a card to the top with another control than a pass - but they that's just me - my life is to short to learn and master a real pass (I'm not talking Herman change over passes and stuff or Hugard/Braues Invisible pass - but a real pass).

Most usefull sleigh. To really master your ways to get in and out of a DL. Man, do I see a lot of ways out there that is pretty unnatural. A lot of magicians are performing this lift in ways they would never handle a single - the whole point of a convincing DL is to make it look like its a single. Try to simply handle and move singles for half an hour in a natural way - and then analyse if you handle doubles the same way - if not - then start working because this is your most important weapon of them all IMHO.
Scott F. Guinn
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"Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G"
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If you know the weak angles, you can compensate. If there is someone in line with a bad angle, you can cover. But a lot of times you don't have to. People are usually straining to see what's happening in the "field of play"--where the EFFECT happens--not at the hand that is doing nothing and is supposedly empty. Aldo Colombini is fond of saying, "You are the only one who knows!" And he's right. People don't know what a Tenkai Palm is, much less where or when you're going to use it. And if you're always worrying about the people behind and around you, you aren't properly focussing on the people at the table for whom you are performing.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
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Profile of Dennis
There are no USELESS moves - Just Moves that are useless in certain situations!
Choose wisely grasshopper!
steve j
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For the most part the only sleight that I consistently use in my table hopping set are DL's and elmsly counts, and agreeing with dennis, every move has a use just not every move is used in every situation, your environment decides what you can get away with.
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Profile of KirkG
Just for fun! Smile

People who say passes are useless, are the ones who can't do them well.

Perhaps they can't be used in every instance, but in many and perhaps most. Take the time and once you have one, see how you feel.

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Profile of Magicmaven
Are you referring to a specific pro...? Smile
Magic Sam
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Profile of Magic Sam
Every move is useful in the right hands..
I use the snap change all the time for hopping, and if you hold the card flat or against your arm, there are no angle problems. Lapping, also, I used to do stand-up lapping (using a servante built into my cummerbund). Misdirection can cover most angles, and if one out of five people in a group sees a flash, chances are they won't say anything if the rest of the table is captivated.

In the same vein, people looking from other tables/positions are no problem. Unless you're doing the same routine for everyone, flashing makes no difference. Those who saw will forget anyway, and still don't know _how_ the magic happens (even if they see some mechanics of _what_ happens). If table two watches your card routine from the back, bring out the coins and blow them away, or vice versa. When practicing, I try to make the moves invisible from my angle also, and covered by my arms from the sides. If someone's looking over your shoulder, he _will_ look wherever your head is pointing, so overact your misdirection. Just my opinion.
Magic is like a party in your eyes, where everyone's drunk and breaking the furniture
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Profile of sullivanl
The antifaro!!! SO useless, but amazing.
Roland Henning
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Kiel, Germany
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Profile of Roland Henning
Since I always stand (I never ever sit) when I do magic lapping is definitly a useless move. Most (almost all) of the time I work completly surrounded. (Completly, even people looking down from behind my shoulders) so no Snap Change, Tenkai, Tilt and all of the angly stuff.

But the most useless sleight would be the Betram Change. In my real life working enviroment there is simply no angle in which I wouldn't give away the secret. Those who claim to do it for real people must be performing for about 4 people, or they are joking.
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