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John Long
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I would like your thoughts on Del Wilson's 12 Gospel Routines with a Rope compared to Jim Todd's Gospel in Ropes

Wilson has a number of other books: Impromptu Gospel Tricks, Thumb tip.. your thoughts on these would be appreciated too.

John
Breathtaking Magic;
Not Breath Taking
paulmagic
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I have Del Wilson's 12 Gospel Routines with a Rope booklet. Bought it from Steve Varro. Only recently have tried to use but as I am new to rope magic and find that I struggle with it :-( (Can't even do the professor's nightmare routine properly!) I find the instructions and illusrations hard to follow without help from someone who is familar with handling ropes. Only mastered two basic ones in the booklet. Even the rope handcuffs is tough for me as half the time I cut the wrong parts (diagram not clear to my eyes).
As for the other don't have so can't comment.
Many Blessings!!

Paul
drkptrs1975
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I have the Gospel in Ropes, not too bad, I don't have Del Wilsons book.
RevJohn
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I know this isn't exactly answering your question. But since I don't have either of the books you are asking about, I thought I would give a thumbs up to another Rope resource.

I actually think getting Daryl's work on Rope (Expert Rope Magic Made Easy, 3 Vol) would be the way to go. Just the trick knots alone gave me enough Gospel ideas to make it worth the purchase.

If you are thinking of getting into rope magic, Daryl's rope routine is a nice way to see a routine all put together.

Anyway... I think these would pack your mind with sooo many Gospel ideas.

RevJohn
John Long
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Thanks all. I may buy more than one just to find out.

RevJohn: Do you have the name right? I thought his was titled Easy to master rope magic? & why just vol 3? I would be interested in hearing you effect/patter ideas. Along the line of generic rope magic, I am also interested in Tabary's routine, and Abbott's Encyclopedia of rope, but not necessarily for a Gospel presentation.

I'm interested in getting a nice Gospel routine to show/witness to my parents the next time I visit. I already have a nice patter for the Prof's Nightmare.

Although I've been a Christian for decades, I am only recently thinking of Gospel magic. I'm struggling coming up with a meaningfull merging of a biblical truth with a magic effect. I'm thinking a general book on illustrating biblical truths might be insightfull - I would then add the "magic".


John
Breathtaking Magic;
Not Breath Taking
paulmagic
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I have daryl's rope magic vol 1 and I find it fascinating and helpful as it teaches me the basics (whihc I don't have). I like the approach and it will be the way I will be trying to learn rope magic (when I have more time). Can't afford to get the others in the series yet - Would I be right to presume vol. 3 is at the level where the rope basics have been covered and they are now incorporated into finer routines?
Many Blessings!!

Paul
Belleque
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Hi John,
I'm not quite sure where to locate it but the "Sandsational Rope" routine is a great study in rope magic. Especially in the "flow" of a routine. It is also good practice for developing a gospel routine. There is also a follow up book called "Sandsational Rope 2" which I also enjoyed. If you learn Sandsational rope it is also interesting to watch Dan Harlan's plays big-packs flat all purpose show. He makes some really neat modifications to the routine. Both George Sands and Dan Harlan are very easy to learn from. Jim Todd is a friend of mine and I enjoy both his book and Del's.

PM me if I can be of further help!

Brett
lowphat
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I would recommend Richard Sander's "Fiber Optics" rope DVD. It is a reputation maker and you could easily put a gospel patter to it. You won't be disappointed. I book more shows as a result of that one routine than any other.
John Long
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I recently received Del's 12 Gospel rope and impromtu booklets, Epler's 50 Object Lessons, and Spirital Applications to Tarbel 1 & 2 (but I don't even have Tarbell yet!, I wanted to see if the applications looked good first, then I might buy the electroinic version of Tarbell from Lybrary.com)

For each, the "magic" part varies from the level of a general magic book for kids up to Mark Wilson's Complete Course. Yet I didn't buy these for the magic alone, but for the Gospel application. Del has a nice multi-phase rountine that includes the Professor's nightmare in the middle of it(you create the unequal ropes on the fly).

Paul: yes, it is hard to follow Del's explanations; they are very terse. I think I even noticed some typos(i.e. "right" vs "left"). Many of the Del's methods are in Wilson's Complete Course(which I highly recommend, and be sure to get the 2002 copyright edition), but not the Profs Nightmare. I learned the set up for the stretch differently(I bought the stand alone effect & have it on Sankey's Magic Tricks Anyone Can do) than in Del's booklet. It looks like his method will work, but its not easy to tell from the diagram which rope is in front of which others(and that is critical). Nor does Del explain a false count to show the spectator that you have 3 separate ropes of equal length. Fortunately I knew many of the effects already, and I was able to glean a few different handlings. PM me if you have a specific question. He has a resonable Gospel message for this.


I think what I will want to do next is look for so good non-magic Gospel illustrations, and think about ways to embellish them with a magic effect. Example, years abo I bought some "Wordless Books" (do a search for them on the internet if you are not familiar with it), they consist of a book with only different colored pages: gold, black, red, white and green representing heaven, our sin, Christ's blood, forgiveness, and growing in Christ. This weekend I made a "Wordless-Coloring" book. I'm trying to convince Steve Varro to produce them, mine is very clunky(I use paper that was too thick). I think it is just an obvious "marriage" of two established methods of presenting the Gospel.

Overall, as others on a different thread commented, I'm starting with the Bible, and writing down in a database, my ideas on how different concepts could be presented.


John
Breathtaking Magic;
Not Breath Taking
God-glorified
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12 ........ with ropes is a great book with GOOD IDEAS..................For simply rope magic Jeff McBride on stage vol. is the answer no questions asked
Ephes. 2:8-9



For by GRACE are ye saved through faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.
John Long
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Well, I bought both Del's and Todd's booklets.

Todd's book has 8 effects, 4 of them use a Nana's necklace principle. Yet the 4'th of those, the "gimmick" is a *visible* part of the set-up, and when it is visibly removed the "prisoner is free" - a nice twist on an old method.

Most of the effects seem to focus on "sin" and or freedom from it. The patter reads more like a message from a 1920's evangelistic revival for children, and *much* more talking than magic effect. I question, given today,s culture, whether this patter would be an effective evangelisic message out side of a church setting.

The first effect, circle of life, that illustrates that we were made to live eternally w/God, but sin separates us, man's efforts to alleviate the effect of sin makes things worse, but trusting in Jesus fixes that. A nice patter for a magic effect you've probably seen.

Overall, I think Wilson's booklet was better. Yet, these booklets gave me some ideas.

Each booklet did have some novel magic effects(or twists on old effects), but for the most part the magic portion is on par with a childrens magic book or up to a Mark Wilsons complete course(which in total is a great resource). If you are good at pairing up a story with effects, you won't need either of these.

If you want some better rope magic, I like Daryl's Expert rope magic(vol 1-3), or if you want to save some bucks, I recently got Fulves' Self Working Rope Magic, and it has many of the tricks I saw in Daryls(but I would have had a hard time learning the Kellar rope tie from Fulves book, and I've found a mistake in one of Fulves' diagrams). Abbott's Rope Magic is another book that has been recommended, and it is supposed to be reprinted this August, with all 3 volumes in one volume.


John
Breathtaking Magic;
Not Breath Taking
paulmagic
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John

Thanks for all these updates. Will file away your comments for future reference when I decide it is time to work on rope magic. I will certainly take up your offer and PM you if I need advice on gospel rope magic. Thanks. Right now I am just too overwhelmed with so many things, magical or otherwise Smile

Decided to work on Tarbell's course of magic so I can learn properly and systematically. Bought the Lybrary CD of Tarbell's course. BTW, read with interest your comments on the material (after I bought it) on another thread.
Many Blessings!!

Paul
John Long
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Paul

To respond to your question from 5/25, I haven't gone thru all of Daryl yet, but for me V1 covers making knots. This was the least interesting to me, and I think this could be covered from books (Fulves book has some of that). V2 & V3 didn't seem to build on V1, but just different stuff. For myself the Kellar and Gysel spirit ties(V2) were just what I was looking for, and was very please to get them(I was preparing for show for a family reunion). Both of these ties are in Fulves' book, but I would probably not have understood how to do the (behind the back) Kellar tie from Fulves.

Volume 3 has a reasonble amount of ring on rope tricks which I was also interested in. Fulves doesn't have as much ring on rope as did Daryl's volume 2.
V3 also has Daryls rope routine - I just haven't put any time on it.


In regards to e-Tarbell. I was initially buying Tarbell to go along with Miller's Spiritual Applications for Tarbell (which is built around the lessons in the hardbound version of Tarbell, V1 & 2), and to get extra info about the Kellar rope tie. When I found the e-Tarbell had a low percentage of the hardbound V1, and none of V6(the volume w/the Kellar tie) I was very disappointed, and felt mislead. None the less, Chris(of e-Lybrary) did offer a return, and is in process of detailing the relationship between the e-book and hardbound("anthologies" as his web site calls it). I may still keep the e-book, but need to decide soon. It does have a lot of stuff, it is the original lessons from Tarbell, and is intended to take you from basics to more advanced. I don't the extent to which it accomplishes that, I haven't look that much at it. Certainly the search feature is helpfull to find things by a topic, but in general I find a hardbound book more desirable, and from what I noticed so far from Tarbell, I think I would prefer Wilson's Complete Course in Magic(go mine for $10). Regardless, I'm sure you will benefit greatly from going thru e-Tarbell.

John
Breathtaking Magic;
Not Breath Taking
paulmagic
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John

Thanks for your comments and evaluation / review / advice. Greatly appreciated
Many Blessings!!

Paul
hillk
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I like it. It was pretty cool to watch and I thought it a trick worth buying
drkptrs1975
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I like Del Wilsons much better
Daniel Faith
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Hmmm, I haven't heard of either book.
Looks like they are getting good reviews.
I will have to look for these.
Daniel Faith
John Long
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Time for an update

Del's book has a trick where 2 loops are tied in a rope, sort of a rope handcuff, to represent the entanglement of sin. The appropriate cutting of those loops creates 2 pop-off knots, that pop off when the rope is stretched.

This effect is very similar to the Panama Rope Trick (Tarbell 2), which also has a "cut" in the middle of the rope(but no pop-offs). If the rope from this cut is tied into a pop off knot, and you apply the cutting of the other knots as detailed in Del's book, you have 3 pop off knots that will pop off one at a time - very visual.

I used this effect to talk about how we can offend others when we make "cutting" remarks. Trying to make up for this by being nice, doesn't fully restore the relationship(tie 1'st pop off in middle of rope). Other offenses may continue, and the relationship becomes rather unpleasant (tie and cut the other two knots). Yet, if we apologize, you can practically see the other persons offense melt away(pop of knots).

Or, This could be used to talk about how sin causes separation from God, and our efforts to restore that are imperfect.. only the blood of Christ can restore that relationship.

I used this in a Childrens hospital recently, and the kids were very impressed when the knots came off on their own. I recommend that you check out this effect. It is very easy, can easily be adapted to different messages, and has a very impressiv ending if you make the 3 pop-off knots.

John
Breathtaking Magic;
Not Breath Taking
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