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Alym Amlani
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Canada
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I would have to agree with Scott here. Whether or not the restaurant approached you, the hardest part about securing a restaurant gig (I think) is to convince the restaurant that they actually need the service.

As magicians, we improve as we perform. Perhaps (referring to Kinesis's question) that magician was new to the industry and learning the ropes and in time would be a good fit for the restaurant. He deserves his shot too.

I firmly believe that the first rule of this area of work should be respect for eachother's performing space. Smile

That's just my opinion...
Logic Defied
kinesis
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Scotland, surrounded by
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I have every respect for my fellow magi. I've been elbowed out by other magicians in the past. I believe this guy has been with the restaurant some time which makes things worse. I have no intention of contacting the restaurant again, but would have to think hard if they offered me the job. Anyway it's all hypothetical and hopefully will stay that way. Interesting discussion topic though...
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein






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Alym Amlani
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Inner circle
Canada
1465 Posts

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LOL, sorry, it was late when I posted and didn't mean to imply whatsoever a lack of respect. Smile

Great topic btw!
Logic Defied
cfrye
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Portland, Oregon, USA
940 Posts

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Quote:
On 2005-06-04 03:56, Scott F. Guinn wrote:
I think it is incredibly bad form to try to move in on another magician's turf, whether you are better or not. He's the one who did the leg work, etc. Now if the restaurant fires him first and then contacts you, that's another matter.

I agree, but that's not what happened here. The original poster didn't "move in"; he was brought in as a replacement through an agency and the wait staff, of their own volition, said they would tell the manager that he was much better than the magician who has the gig.

When I said that the original poster was acting ethically, I reflected his statements that he had neither contacted the restaurant since the gig nor actively lobbied for the job while he was filling in. Given those circumstances, if the restaurant manager wants to make the change, that's show biz.

Curt
Aaron Lucas
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If you are a good magician, you are charging a reasonable sum and get on well with the staff then you are not going to have to worry about some other guy getting your job.

Try and keep control of who stands in for you - organise it all yourself and don't put in anyone who is much better than you. I have done about four restaurants weekly over the last few years (I don't do them any more) and always made sure that when I was unable to make it that I put in someone who was scruffier, weirder and less competent than me. That way the restaurant staff couldn't wait for me to come back.

By contrast I recently got a call from a very upmarket restaurant (average spend $80 a head) and the magician was ill so they had asked around and got my name from someone. When I went in they realised that I was much better than the other guy and now it looks like I may be taking over. I don't feel this is poaching as the restaurant approached me and the other guy is quite clearly dumb enough not to have considered the above.
Just a magic lovin dude
Comet
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I've had two things happen to me. I took someone along on a show I was performing for a Daycare center once so he could see what my show like. While I was finishing up my show he was in the office of the directer selling his Santa and clown act to her.
I was also working one location of a local restaurant chain at the time and got a call from a manager at one of the restaurants asking me to bring the reciept into him for the past weeks performance. The thing is I had never worked that location. I only lived a mile or so from it so I went to see that manager and found that another local magician had used my business card and worked under my name in that restaurant (poorly I might add) I spoke with the servers and the asst. mgr to make sure that he was using my name and he was. He had introduced himself as me and worked ONE night. I did confront him and he denied that he used my name but I do know one thing. he'll never do it again.
Enjoy!
Joe Comet! (the real one!)
Scott F. Guinn
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"Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G"
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Quote:
On 2005-06-04 15:11, cfrye wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-06-04 03:56, Scott F. Guinn wrote:
I think it is incredibly bad form to try to move in on another magician's turf, whether you are better or not. He's the one who did the leg work, etc. Now if the restaurant fires him first and then contacts you, that's another matter.

I agree, but that's not what happened here. The original poster didn't "move in"; he was brought in as a replacement through an agency and the wait staff, of their own volition, said they would tell the manager that he was much better than the magician who has the gig.

When I said that the original poster was acting ethically, I reflected his statements that he had neither contacted the restaurant since the gig nor actively lobbied for the job while he was filling in. Given those circumstances, if the restaurant manager wants to make the change, that's show biz.

Curt
I never said that's what happened here. read my post again. I said that it is bad form for a person to do that, but another matter if the restaurant cans the other guy and calls him. Just like you just said, but with fewer words. Twice. Smile
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
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Pete Biro
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1933 - 2018
18558 Posts

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Try the freelance photography biz. I had a great client (for over 30 years) and the relationship I had with them was wonderful -- they even hired me to do magic too.

They told me time after time that other photographers constantly contacted them to take my work away from me... and at much cheaper prices... but, the loyalty with the client -- in both directions -- ruled and I never got pushed out.

I did get "dropped" (no one took my place) due to a huge financial downturn in their business where ALL BUDGETS were slashed.

But, I was about to retire anyway.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
John C
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Eternal Order
I THINK therefore I wrote
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I'm sure that there are plenty of other magi sending out flyers or walking in that my not know whether or not a magician works at a particular restaurant.

Not much you can do about that expect have a good relationship with the manager.

John
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Comet
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I'll do a cold call from time to time for a place but I will not go someplace where I know another magician or clown is working. the magic community is really kind of small in most areas and we know there's a few magician who are really out working so it's not too hard to get the info about who's working where. I used to live in Cheyenne WY and I think I was one of two magicians who worked in that town at the time and the other guy and I were good friends so I didn't have a problem from other magicians. I did have a few clowns who attempted to come in and work some of the places I was working but they didn't ever seem to bust in. it's funny what some people will do though.
Enjoy!
Joe Comet
Alym Amlani
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Canada
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UPDATE: I have now been told by some of the staff the name of the guy who has been trying to poach the gig. I'm just not sure what, if anything, would be the right thing to do...

What would you do?
Logic Defied
murdo
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Excellent topic. Thanks to all who have helped educate me.

Half way through I was going to take the devil's advocate position of asking someone to justify the position that everybody is taking.

After all should you hold back from approaching the management when you think you can do a better job / cheaper (sorry - better value) job than the incumbent ? What are you stealing ? Why should you be shut out because some other guy is there ? He's been paid every week. Isn't it just self interest that makes us look on it as wrong ? What are you stealing ? Haven't you got as much right to it as anyone else ?

And then of course I got as far as the answer - the reason someone has a right to the turf is because it's the initial sell that is the hard work. That's why they've earned it, and that's what and why it's stealing.

But I'm afraid I've not yet got as far as being able to answer the question in the latest post.
bsears
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Cincinnati, Ohio
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I showed up to a regular gig one night and another entertainer was already there pitching them! Can you say uncomfortable? This person apologized to me, saying they didn't know the restaurant already had entertainment - and then CONTINUED THEIR PITCH, RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. Unbelievable. The manager later tore up the other entertainer's card and we had a good laugh at the nerve of some people.
Comet
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Bsears, That's kind of the way I felt when my "friend" worked that restaurant AS ME. It was a very uncomfortable thing but he did get to know exactly how I felt about him not only telling the restaurant mgr he was me and working a night as me. Needless to say I met with the mgr when he called me and showed him my ID as well as a picture of the guy who said he was me. He confirmed it was and asked me to come work for him. he figured if someone would pose as me then I'd be worth seeing. I got that restaurant for close to a year till they moved out of the area. ya never know what a guy will do!! lol
Enjoy!
Joe Comet
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