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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » Cheap magicians - are you one? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Tabasco
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I agree Mr Matthew.

Felix sorry if it was a language thing, but where I come from you don't call people cheap unless you are a fast runner....
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Justin2200
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Quote:
On 2005-06-03 03:58, Felix Cardician wrote:
Quote:
Unless their parents are the one who pay for the internet...


...then their parents can afford their magic.
Come on, why are you trying to shoot me down here? I'm sure you know what I mean, so why try to irritate purposely?

Once again, it is about the attitude. Cheap magicians somehow think that they are entitled to get the secrets for free, secrets that famous magicians have maybe developed for years. Secrets that other magicians, real magicians have learned through books or from the inventor himself.
A cheap magician shows up and boom, they want the information, right now, for free. They are willing to invest in decks of cards, but do they ever realize the INFORMATION is also valuable, and it should not be treated like garbage.


I assure you, that I am not of an attitude that I should get magic for free. Magic is something that should be paid for yes, and paid to the original creator of the tricks. However, I'm just trying to prove a point here. You seem to think that anyone who really wants to get into it, can afford to buy the magic. I use myself as my own example. My family is not as poor as many families, but we make just enough to be able to pay our bills, and put money back for our yearly vacation. I am 19, I am searching for a job, and when I have that job, I might be able to afford new magic stuff, but I don't know. I have bills of my own. Car insurance $100/month. Truck payment $150/month. Gasoline which is probably gonna be about $75-100 a month. On top of that, I am helping my mother pay some of her bills since I am not going to school. I would not ask her to buy me anything of major value, because I know she is tight on money. So the affordability issue in this discussion should be dropped completely. You see gas prices, how high they are (it's about $1.90/gallon here), but expect people to be able to fork out $50-100 bucks, or more, for a book, or a DVD, or the latest magic prop. It just doesn't work like that.

And I agree with you that the information is valuable. Whenever I do get a job, I plan on saving money so I can buy a copy of RRTCM, Modern coin Magic, and the bucks' system DVD.
The Presitidigitationist
Jim Morton
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I'll let you in on a little secret: Being a good magician has nothing to do with how many DVDs, tapes and books you own. Just because you've spent more money on this stuff than some other guy doesn't mean you are any better a magician. Worrying about people who try and learn all their magic by lifting stuff via the Internet is a waste of time. Magic requires practice and study and, most of all, a talent for performing. I really can't imagine that someone who tries to gather everything via the Internet is likely to excel at these things. If the only magic book you owned was a beat-up old copy of Magic Digest, but you learned to perform everything in it well, you'd have a viable career ahead of you.

It's not about the stuff.

Jim
Andy-JM
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Quote:
On 2005-06-03 17:18, Jim Morton wrote:
I'll let you in on a little secret: Being a good magician has nothing to do with how many DVDs, tapes and books you own. Just because you've spent more money on this stuff than some other guy doesn't mean you are any better a magician. Worrying about people who try and learn all their magic by lifting stuff via the Internet is a waste of time. Magic requires practice and study and, most of all, a talent for performing. I really can't imagine that someone who tries to gather everything via the Internet is likely to excel at these things. If the only magic book you owned was a beat-up old copy of Magic Digest, but you learned to perform everything in it well, you'd have a viable career ahead of you.


I agree to this somewhat but the discussion is geared more towards the attitude of these people and whether or not it is ethical. Goweer the point you make is valid and is making me rethink my opinions.
sinnead zenun
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Quote:
On 2005-06-01 03:47, Felix Cardician wrote:
Define cheap magician? Ok.
A cheap magician is a fairly new hobbyist, who has learned most of his/her information about magic through the net. He very rarely or never buys books or video material about magic - because he likes to find another way, downloading ripped files and searching Google if anyone would have exposed a magic secret.
Cheap magicians hang on magic forums hour upon hour to find if someone, even accidentally, exposed a secret. They are like vultures (lol), eating the garbage someone left behind.
Cheap magicians never perform to public. Yes, they love showing tricks to their friends, but they never do gigs or large public shows.


I agree on this one but not the latter part of your post Smile
maybe someone might started as a cheap magician... but then eventually those who truly love magic and respected it may become a real magician from a cheap magician... and those who don't may forget it through time...

but there is one which is worst than the cheap magician you are talking about...
almost same definition of cheap magician but also they sell those tricks which they get free and sometimes exposes some magic to their friends just to prove they know everything...
JJDrew
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PS.
Everyone who owns a computer and a fast internet connection, can afford a magic book or DVD, just as well as a hockey stick. It is just a matter of how CHEAP the person is inside...


I'd have to disagree with this premise. You're confusing people who OWN a computer and internet connection with people who have access to the internet. It's been my experience that the two easiest things to procure for free (by legal means) are food, and an internet connection. I used to live in an apartment where the richest residents worked in restaurants (cooks and waiters), and the poorest were on food stamps (I, working in a magic shop, was in the middle of this range). That apartment had the best internet connection I've ever seen. The landlord ran a server as a side business and the residents all had internet access through his computer.

I have since moved out, and now access the internet at the library or occasionally at friends' houses.

There have been numerous times when I had to choose between a magic book and food. Sometimes the book won, sometimes the food.

Okay, now that I've gotten that out of my system, I think your critics on this thread are being set off by a lack of clear distinction between cheap and poor. If you have money and simply steal because you don't WANT to spend it, you're cheap. If you're getting what you can off the internet because you truely don't HAVE the money to spent, you're poor.

Your frustration is with the cheap, not the poor (I think).

The poor, given a choice, WOULD buy the books.
The cheap, given a choice, would not.

I, too, have a problem with the cheap, not because they're cheap, but because they don't realize what they're missing out on. They're like the student who thinks of absolutely brilliant methods for cheating on a test and work for hours to perfect the technique. They successfully pass the test by cheating, but they would have saved themselves a lot of time and energy had they simply studied the material, and they would have the added advantage of knowing the material.

Instead of learning the class material, they've learned how to cheat.
Fortunately, such practices are self-limiting. When you get into the real world and begin working, cheating isn't as easy. Either you do the work or you don't. Therefore, former cheaters either learn to do the work they're assigned, or they fail in the real world.

The "cheap" beginners are the same way. What have they learned from all this work stealing magic tricks? For every trick they've learned, they've spent ten times as much time learning how to use the computer to steal. They'll end up as very accomplished thieves, but not very good magicians. If the things they're learning are, like library books, free to the public and readily available legally, they're not doing anything wrong. Either way, cheapness doesn't pay off in the end.
Dr_Stephen_Midnight
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Let's put a different spin on this:

A kid wants to learn magic.

He goes to the library and checks out books on magic and magic history and reads voraciously.

He has borrowed the books; he has not bought them.

Unethical?

If so, time to close the libraries.

Steve
Dr. Lao: "Do you know what wisdom is?"
Mike: "No."
Dr. Lao: "Wise answer."
Tabasco
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Let's shut down the internet............... where is the switch? anyone?
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Alniner
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Skĺl

--
Alan
Tabasco
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Quote:
On 2005-06-05 00:27, Alniner wrote:
http://www.turnofftheinternet.com/


The best sollution ever, I love it LOL.
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Andy-JM
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Quote:
On 2005-06-05 17:09, Tabasco wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-06-05 00:27, Alniner wrote:
http://www.turnofftheinternet.com/


The best sollution ever, I love it LOL.


I pushed the button but it still works...i thought id finally managed to turn it of...oh well, back to the drawing board.
daffydoug
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Quote:
On 2005-06-01 03:47, Felix Cardician wrote:
Over the past years, especially now that the internet has become common, magic has gone through many changes. One of the most important is the way how magic is learned today. This post is directed especially to you, new magicians.
I'll go straight to the point...one of the unpleasant things that internet has brought with it is what I like to call cheap magicians.

Define cheap magician? Ok.
A cheap magician is a fairly new hobbyist, who has learned most of his/her information about magic through the net. He very rarely or never buys books or video material about magic - because he likes to find another way, downloading ripped files and searching Google if anyone would have exposed a magic secret.
Cheap magicians hang on magic forums hour upon hour to find if someone, even accidentally, exposed a secret. They are like vultures (lol), eating the garbage someone left behind.
Cheap magicians never perform to public. Yes, they love showing tricks to their friends, but they never do gigs or large public shows.

Cheap magicians are very easy to recognize when they go to a magic shop (which is rarely)...they look around quite a long time, books, DVDs etc., and there's a reason for this: they are not going to buy the books, they are memorizing the names and authors of the books so that they can later go to the net and search if that certain book was available online!
What does a cheap magician buy from a magic shop then? The ONLY thing he cant find on the net - props and accessories like decks of cards, maybe a thumb tip. Cheap magicians never buy books, videos or other material that you can learn something from.

There are an awful lot of hobbyist magicians who perfectly match the description above. I know some of them, and it is very annoying to talk about magic with them. They don't know much about magic, yet they think they know everything. When you are talking about a book that you bought last week, cheap magicians are telling you about the latest free trick they got with XXX Magic's newsletter!

If you recognized yourself from the above description, please seriously consider about switching to "real" magic. Cheap magicians are becoming more and more common, and I don't know about others, but I'm so fed up with these guys. You cant talk about magic with them - yet they are part of your group. It's like as if you were playing in a hockey team, with all the props, shields, helmets, proper skates etc., and then you have guys in your team that have a pair of age old skates, a stick that they made from wood by themselves, and a dirty sweatshirt of the same color as the game shirts of the rest of the team...
Want those guys to play for your team? ...I didn't think so.

Holy cow! I had never realized that these guys were out there, but the description was very eye opening, and I'm sure it hit home for some folks!
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
edh
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Quote:
:
On 2005-06-05 00:27, Alniner wrote:
http://www.turnofftheinternet.com/

The best solution ever, I love it LOL.

No! No! Don't turn it off yet!! I still haven't learned the "Knife thru the Eye" trick yet! Smile
Magic is a vanishing art.
daffydoug
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Quote:
On 2005-06-01 03:47, Felix Cardician wrote:
Over the past years, especially now that the internet has become common, magic has gone through many changes. One of the most important is the way how magic is learned today. This post is directed especially to you, new magicians.
I'll go straight to the point...one of the unpleasant things that internet has brought with it is what I like to call CHEAP magicians.

Define cheap magician? Ok.
A cheap magician is a fairly new hobbyist, who has learned most of his/her information about magic through the net. He very rarely or never buys books or video material about magic - because he likes to find another way, downloading ripped files and searching Google if anyone would have exposed a magic secret.
Cheap magicians hang on magic forums hour upon hour to find if someone, even accidentally, exposed a secret. They are like vultures (lol), eating the garbage someone left behind.
Cheap magicians never perform to public. Yes, they love showing tricks to their friends, but they never do gigs or large public shows.

Cheap magicians are very easy to recognize when they go to a magic shop (which is rarely)...they look around quite a long time, books, DVDs etc., and there's a reason for this: they are not going to buy the books, they are memorizing the names and authors of the books so that they can later go to the net and search if that certain book was available online!
What does a cheap magician buy from a magic shop then? The ONLY thing he cant find on the net - props and accessories like decks of cards, maybe a thumb tip. Cheap magicians NEVER buy books, videos or other material that you can learn something from.

There are an awful lot of hobbyist magicians who perfectly match the description above. I know some of them, and it is very annoying to talk about magic with them. They don't know much about magic, yet they think they know everything. When you are talking about a book that you bought last week, cheap magicians are telling you about the latest free trick they got with XXX Magic's newsletter!

If you recognized yourself from the above description, please seriously consider about switching to "real" magic. Cheap magicians are becoming more and more common, and I don't know about others, but Im so fed up with these guys. You cant talk about magic with them - yet they are part of your group. It's like as if you were playing in a hockey team, with all the props, shields, helmets, proper skates etc., and then you have guys in your team that have a pair of age old skates, a stick that they made from wood by THEMSELVES, and a dirty sweatshirt of the same color as the game shirts of the rest of the team...
Want those guys to play for your team? ...I didn't think so







Holy cow! I had never realized that these guys were out there, but the description was very eye opening, and I'm sure it hit home for some folks!
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
abc
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Unfortunately the art of magic does revolve around two things primarily. Skill and secrets. Now if you are a good guitarists or pianist it means that you have aquired a skill but there is no secret to it. So someone really rocks when playing a musical instrument people appreciate the skill. Magic on the other hand is not always seen as a skill but more as a bunch of closely guarded secrets. I think all the referals here to "Cheap magicians" are not aimed at the amount of money you are spending but at the morons who learn magic to impress their friends (which they hardly ever do because they are doing it from a secret point of view and they do not realise or are too lazy to acquire and practise the SKILL) or two bust on other performing magicians.
I personally have nothing against file sharing or magic being on the internet for free purely because it is for free elsewhere too. I have borrowed many books and DVD's or even VHS cassettes to learn magic but I was guided correctly in acquiring both knowledge and skill (of which I still need a lot) something these people do not do and that is in my opinion there loss not ours. You see a Picasso on Van Gogh and you can not appreciate it for what it is then that is not the artist's loss. It is yours.
A great example of that is I had a friend of a friend over at my house and we were listening to Lenny Bruce. He said the jokes are dumb and the performance stupid but he had absolutely no idea about the history behind it. That is not my loss. There is just no substitution for proper knowledge. And being really cheap with the amount of effort you put in won't get you that.
daffydoug
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Well spoken.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
Lynne Kelly
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I have the books and DVDs. I bought heaps of 'stuff' much of which I regret buying. But I didn't really understand a lot of what I read and saw. The same would apply to the internet. It all reads or looks fine until you try to perform.

For me, as a beginner, what took me from a struggling amateur, trying to work out what was what from all the things I had bought, was when I was offered help by experienced magicians. It is the company, advice and experience of these men which meant I could go to the books and DVDs and from them create my own performance set.

I wonder whether many of the 'cheap' magicians could be converted with good advice and support.

Lynne
Jonathan Rice
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I do not perform as much as I would like too, thanks to our freindly system we call school...but when I go to a magic shop...I DO spend a long time looking around...Why? Not so I can memorize authors. I look around becaus I like the atmosphere of my local shop, and I love seeing all the props and books, Seeing what they really look like and how the quality is of the products. Spending a long time browsing isn;t a sin.
denzildon
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In my opinion, when you go to the internet to search for free tricks, you can only go to a certain extent in which at this point you can't go farther. To be honest I am like this when I started out thinking of magic as a hobby. I could say I'm an average guy in terms of money but never the less I started out looking for free tricks in the net. I got a few tricks here and there. But I as my love for magic grew and to be able to improve myself I bought Dvd's, books and trick materials, etc etc. Now searching the net for free tricks is not an easy task and really can't improve with just relying on it.

I guess a lot of newbies here right now have the same experience and for sure if they really love magic it will come to a point where in they would buy the tricks or be mature enough to know what is right and wrong and give credit to where its due.
Imagination is more important than knowledge!!! -- Albert Einstein
pedrothegreat
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As a newbie I would like to say I am definately not a cheap magician (in the ethical and monetary sense). To be honest I would say I am currently a naive magician. I'm 24 and only recently realised that you could learn magic to such a high standard from books and dvd's. I always assumed you would have to know someone in the business to teach you. Pretty dumb eh? When I found out you can buy books and dvd's, I did. So far I have 4 books and 8 dvd's. They should keep me going for a while.
I think anyone who has a true passion for magic will always want to learn it properly from books and dvd's. As pointed out a couple of times the cheap magicians can never get as far as the ethical magician as they are always trying to piece together random tips and tricks that they stole and obviously do not have the passion and dedication to learn the art.
Although I don't agree at all with the way cheap magicians go about 'learning' magic, I like the fact they exist as think I will get a smug satisfaction when I have the ability to upstage them Smile muahahahaha (evil laugh)

pedrothegreat
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