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TCM
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I wouldn't like to consider myself as a cheap magician - although I do not perform to the public (I think its my lack of confidence and the fact that I am not good enough yet)

I feel sorry for the people that are, they will never understand the true meaning of magic and wont ever have the thrill of a new dvd through the door or a performance with great reactions (I still am looking for that though Smile )
jack_is_dead
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I have to say something here as I was also a cheap magician..but at that time I just didn't know there were this many things in the world of magic..no materials..no magic shops..no books about magic and no money wat so ever..i automatically started to be a cheap magician..but now I realize wat I was doing and started buying books and dvds..i was suprised that its completely a different world..what I'm trying to tell here is that the mind of a cheap magicians is different..sometimes its helpless and they just cant see it at the beggining..however there are no way to get rid of them because they are inside each and every magicians..the curiousity..the excitement..entertaining people..being larger than life..this are the factor that's driving them to be the cheap magician..so sooner or later they will realize and start acting appropriately or those who cant they will eventually quit..its not up to us..its them!
one eyed man is the king in the blind land
Jerrine
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I'm not a cheap Magician, but I do like to keep it low budget. Found Mark Wilson's Cyclopedia of Magic at a second hand shop for $1. Best dollar I ever spent. Buy my cards at WalMart, Bikes, 2 for $3.00. Wanted BoBo's Modern Coin Magic, got it on Lybrary's Triple Classic for $20, flat out stumbled on The Royal Road which is fantastic on same CDROM. Haven't got to Annemann's mental stuff yet, but as a bonus, Woo HOO! Found rope to core and use at Army Navy for 59 cents. Copper Cups & Balls from Adesso Verlag $40. Currently frequenting garage and yard sales looking for silks. You get the picture. Low cost and no rip-off. Glad I was never bitten by the Instant Gratification Bug. Knowledge can be instant but wisdom surely isn't.
anticoin
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Perhaps some people are just thrifty...
Why pay when you can get it for free??
Will you pay $1 for a drink, if you can get it for free??

Some magicians may have the money,, rich people....but it doesn't mean they have to buy books or DVDs. Maybe people who value money or have to work hard to earn those cents and dollars will be more cautious on what they buy, and will try to save money and spend it on more important things like feeding their family, paying rent...not on magic dVDs or books or tricks.
If you know 2 places to buy the same thing, but one place offers it cheaper..will you buy it at the cheaper place? If you do, are you cheap in the eyes of the shop owner who offers the item at the more expensive price?
Money is money...we all try to save when we can
bigchuck
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I AM a cheap magician and I can do some pretty good magic -- how many of those tricks from new dvds and books do we actually use ? I occasionally get a new book or dvd, and usually I get the dvd more to watch for entertainment than to use for new material.

Of course I could add more and more to my already cluttered shelves (and cluttered mind for that matter) but when I shop online (or if I ever make it to a brick and mortar shop) I am probably going to be the guy who gets thumbtips, some card gaffs, one nifty little item I might have heard about, and maybe a gaffed coin or two. Once or twice a year I might go out on a limb and get a set of animal cups or fakini balls or some other such nicety that I have researched and KNOW I want.

I already have more material than I will probably ever use and I don't see the sense in buying more to impress someone who feels that that is the way to better magic.
"The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact
mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows. - Frank Zappa"
Marvello
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There is a difference between being frugal and being a ripoff artist. I think that the term "CHEAP MAGICIAN" is misleading, and instead what you mean to say is "RIPOFF MAGICIAN." There is no need to spend a ton of money on stuff you can make youself.

We all know that a lot of illegal stuff is available on the internet if you know where to look, and this applies to magic as well. I have a friend who became interested in magic, and within a month or so he had more DVD's and books than I did. He burned a few DVDs for me, and I refused them. I pointed out to him that the magic community is very small, and those type of illegal files do nothing but hurt magic overall. I told him that I am not interested in learning the secrets of commercially produced tricks unless I earned the right to know them by compensating the author. It was hard to convince him, though, since he is a musician and freely shares his music via p2p in the hopes of being heard, but I pointed out to him that "secrets" are different. He has since come around to my thinking, and now no longer downloads those type of files, or if he does he doesn't let me know about it anymore at least.
Never criticize someone else until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Then, when you do criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes.
airship
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I've been in the personal computer industry since the very beginning, and I've seen digital piracy in all of its forms. I can honestly say that the majority of pirates are copying and trading stuff that (a) they would never buy, and (b) will probably never even use. Many pirates do what they do just for bragging rights. Most others do so because they are poor and can't afford to buy what they pirate. So there is very little pirated material that represents actual lost sales.

That being said, I don't condone piracy. Intellectual property should be at the control of those who create it - at least for a reasonable amount of time (but that's another debate).

What bothers me most about the 'cheap magicians' being discussed here is that they are all a little bunch of Blaine wanna-bes, who enthusiastically pirate the latest tricks the magician du'jour performed on his last TV special. They have no respect for the craft. But art, music, literature, theatre, and film have always had their wanna-bes, too, so I guess we're in good company.
'The central secret of conjuring is a manipulation of interest.' - Henry Hay
Marvello
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My rant on piracy:

It seems to me that the "norm" these days is to turn a blind eye to digital piracy - most parents don't care if their kids download music, and many people dupe copies of software and games for their friends without a second thought. These same people would be mortified to be caught shoplifting or pickpocketing, yet that is essentially what they are doing. I think that the problem is that society in general does not place much stigma on digital piracy, so it is widespread. For the most part this is justified in people's minds by software, CDs and DVDs that are way too expensive for what they are, and I assume that the same justification applies to magic tricks and manuscripts as well. However, people don't take in to consideration how much time, money and effort it takes to develop, market and release a trick to the general public, and the fact is that very few people are getting rich off of marketing these effects. Bottom line: if we don't support the people who are willing to share their innovations then how can we expect them to be encouraged to share the NEXT cool effect they create?
Never criticize someone else until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Then, when you do criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes.
SOHA
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What a bunch of crap...

To dramatic to call someone a thief...I call them smart...

There is so much magic Rip-off out there right now. Selling things are not worth the price. Magic has become a business, selling overprised items to people that know no better, or have stupid idiologies like most of you have. This "innovators" are merely selling the same effects that have been around for long time, with probably some twists. They take advantage of fools who are willing to buy the next new thing out there. It's all business, they are not getting poor from people that are too smart to know what is a good buy or not.

Just a little bit of research would show someone that all this "new" tricks and principles have actually been around for along time. This will prevent the consumer from WASTING their money on things that they already have, or don't need.
For example, The Shoelace Trick is being sold for a lot of money, when this trick is in one beginer's book that I've had for a long time that cost me closed to nothing.

BE A SMART BUYER

If it's all business, why can't we act like consumers and buy what's really necessary. Supply and Demand. We don't have to fall for the trap of this being a moral delema. BECAUSE IT IS NOT!!

Will
JackScratch
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I'm a discriminating magician. I have spent very little on my craft, but most of what I use, I bought. I don't purchase "effects" I purchase books, and only books that I know by reputation to be excelent. I have a copy of all of the classic literatures of magic, and I purchased each of them legaly. I am happy to peruse the various public domain works for free on the internet and encourage others to do so as well, though I do not, nor do I advise obtaining copyrighted works in any manner other than purchase. Of course I also advise against purchasing individual effects, or as I prefer to call them "effects dujoure'". You don't have to spend a lot of money to be a god and/or ethical magician, in fact, you don't have to spend any.
what
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I prefer to think of myself as "Financially Challenged."

Mike
Magic is fun!!!
evolve629
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The more I read the more unglued I become as I realized I'm "frugal challenged."
One hundred percent of the shots you don't take don't go in - Wayne Gretzky
My favorite part is putting the gaffs in the spectators hands...it gives you that warm fuzzy feeling inside! - Bob Kohler
Erdnase27
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Quote:
On 2006-05-19 09:33, SOHA wrote:
What a bunch of crap...

To dramatic to call someone a thief...I call them smart...

There is so much magic Rip-off out there right now. Selling things are not worth the price. Magic has become a business, selling overprised items to people that know no better, or have stupid idiologies like most of you have. This "innovators" are merely selling the same effects that have been around for long time, with probably some twists. They take advantage of fools who are willing to buy the next new thing out there. It's all business, they are not getting poor from people that are too smart to know what is a good buy or not.

Just a little bit of research would show someone that all this "new" tricks and principles have actually been around for along time. This will prevent the consumer from WASTING their money on things that they already have, or don't need.
For example, The Shoelace Trick is being sold for a lot of money, when this trick is in one beginer's book that I've had for a long time that cost me closed to nothing.

BE A SMART BUYER

If it's all business, why can't we act like consumers and buy what's really necessary. Supply and Demand. We don't have to fall for the trap of this being a moral delema. BECAUSE IT IS NOT!!

Will


sorry to say.. but I do agree on this 1.
"He must be content to rank with the common herd." - S.W. Erdnase
Samuel
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I have some small points to add, if I may (which I do, as this is a public forum)..

First of all, I agree with you with regards to the ETHICAL side of this issue. It is wrong to download ripped DVD's and such, screening the shops for names to download later.

BUT

How can you even dare to say that these so-called 'cheap magicians' don't have the possibility to excell in the art?

Let's just for a moment say that I'm a cheap magician (for explaining purposes only).


So, I find out on a forum that Max Maven is brilliant. I search for his name on the net, and find out that he also is named Phil Goldstein, and I download works from him on the net (videos and books). I read these books, learn lots of the material, and in this period I note some other names, which he credits. I also notice that HE is very persistant on crediting. But those new names, I look into them. Get some new books and videos, and takes a look at them as well.

Now I get some other effects, some of them I like better than those of Max Maven. So I learn those as well, and replace the old ones. Now I have a repertoare of 7 tricks that I know very well.

Well, my searh continues, and I download everything I can with the name "Penguin Magic" and "Ellusionist", trying to get a big collection. I look at all the tricks from Penguin Magic, and realize that out of 40 of the tricks they have on the site, I will only consider performing 3 (because of gaffs, weird handlings, awkward handling and so forth). I do the same thing with the Ellusionist material, and exchange some of the old effects once again.

I'm now up to 15 tricks that I practice alot, and keep polished.

While this has happened, I've read lots of e-books and other books on "ancient" magic, really learned a lot of history and gotten good at the sleights needed for the tricks I actually perform.

I've also performed the tricks for my family and friends, just to get a feeling of how the reactions are.

And this continues for a couple of years. I get done with college, I get a job. I still do the same thing - download new free stuff, updating my routines and tricks. Never buying anything else than exactly the props needed.

Suddenly I find out - hey, I have a lot of material polished. I also have gotten quite nice responces from my family and friends. Perhaps I should try to throw a free show on a homeless shelter or the like. There I get to try out my material for other people than my family and friends, still without spending lots of money. The people love what I do, and this is from now on my way to express my magic.

After perhaps a year or two, doing the occational free job, I find out that I might be able to earn some side-cash because of the magic - so I set up the same show for paying audience. The people I allready have done magic for, has to know some others, so they might have talked about me around. So I don't fill the place up ith raving people, but there comes enough people to be on the plus side.

This is where I get a grip. I now see that I have a passion which actually can go somewhere. That I'm not just a idiot trying to be magical, but I actually have the skills and performance abilities that I need. I dive into research once again, to find the roots of my tricks, and with the money I earn I buy the source of the routines I use. Step by step, after each show, I get a larger library - because of that I now feel that I can afford to.

And as every show passes on, my name gets recognized by the people. The people spread the words to their friends, who comes on the next show. And so forth.

Suddenly I am a famous magician, doing well, paying tribute to the creators of the effects I use.

All this while starting off as a cheap magician, in every word as described original..

Tell me this cannot happen!


I'm not saying it's all right, I'm just saying that those who really love the art - will have the possibility to become someone - even if they started as cheaplings. Those who don't, will actually ruin most magic experiences they could have enjoyed - because they will know the secret, and not care about the exeptionally brilliant performance.


Magic is a very funny art. In the beginning, I felt like a king - knowing all the secrets. But at the same time, I was boored when I saw magic, because now I knew the secrets. As I learned more and more, and my state now - is that I feel that those who created the secrets is kings, and I love watching magic both when I know - and when I don't know - the secrets. And it has everything to do with the presentation and skill of the performer Smile


My point is: If you really love the art, you have the possibility to become someone - cheap or not.
Samuel

Magic is everywhere
JackScratch
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Quote:
On 2006-05-19 09:33, SOHA wrote:
What a bunch of crap...

To dramatic to call someone a thief...I call them smart...

There is so much magic Rip-off out there right now. Selling things are not worth the price. Magic has become a business, selling overprised items to people that know no better, or have stupid idiologies like most of you have. This "innovators" are merely selling the same effects that have been around for long time, with probably some twists. They take advantage of fools who are willing to buy the next new thing out there. It's all business, they are not getting poor from people that are too smart to know what is a good buy or not.

Just a little bit of research would show someone that all this "new" tricks and principles have actually been around for along time. This will prevent the consumer from WASTING their money on things that they already have, or don't need.
For example, The Shoelace Trick is being sold for a lot of money, when this trick is in one beginer's book that I've had for a long time that cost me closed to nothing.

BE A SMART BUYER

If it's all business, why can't we act like consumers and buy what's really necessary. Supply and Demand. We don't have to fall for the trap of this being a moral delema. BECAUSE IT IS NOT!!

Will


Well then, I would think that this being true, there is no good reason for you to obtain effects from these resources at all. You can research lagitimate public domain and find everything you need to know. You don't have to rip, downoald, borrow, or in any other way violate the self monitoring system of usage law that we have established. That is, unless you might be wrong, and are just using this as a dandy excuse to do whatever you wanted to do in the first place. I don't buy very much in the way of magic and I perform perfesionaly. I DO NOT BUY THE TRICK DuJOURE, and don't think anyone else should either. If your worried about someone stealing credit, then you wouldn't be interested in their resources by either lagitamate or iligitamate avenues.

I've seen this rant before, it sounds terribly noble, and for all I know, you practice what you preach, but I would be willing to bet you decided what you were going to do, then worked out a plausable excuse to do it. Put your money, or lack there of, where your mouth is.
Stuart Coyle
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It's not so much the cheap magicians that bug me. It's the lazy ones, a similar breed who haunt the net as if all the secrets are there waiting to be fished up. These are the insidious ones who think that once you know the secret to a trick that's all there is to it.

These sloths in their gas lift chairs want every trick to be a 'self working miracle'(tm). If it says 'requires absolutely no sleight of hand', they'll buy^M^M^Msteal it. The ones with so much innate talent that they don't have to spend knuclebusting hours practicing their art, rehearsing script, improving blocking, working up a routine...'sandpapering' as Gene Anderson would put it.

Cheap! I like to be cheap. Cheap in the way that the client can afford me. Not in the other way! But worse still is lazy!

Time is money. Time is an illusion. I leave the obvious lemma as an exersise.
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