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drkptrs1975 Elite user North Eastern PA 452 Posts |
When you perform for people, no one ever questions why you are doing what you are doing, and no one questions the procedure of what you are doing? Example, cut a woman in half, no one questions why is she being put in the box. Many illusions, if they would question the procedure and or why you do it that way, they will be able to figure out how it is done, some illusions, not even magicians themselves can figure out. Something interesting.
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EddyRay Special user United States Of America 525 Posts |
Many people do not question the procedure because they realize the magic before them is for entertainment, it is like watching a movie; most people do not wonder why the director went with that camera shot as opposed to this one and so forth. The only people who might question a camera shot is a film student or director, similar to a magician questioning the procedure of a magic effect.
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Marshall Thornside Inner circle chicago 2016 Posts |
It be liking a pianist when they play a keyboard why they
use a stand or why do or don't sit, etc., etc. Building the mystery.
you will remember my name
World's Youngest Illusionista 7th greatest pianist in the world Go Red For Women and Stroke Ambassador www.mai-ling.net |
Partizan Inner circle London UK 1682 Posts |
Go to the local butchers and ask to see him dress a pig you will then understand the reason for presentation.
The reason being that you don't require to show the whole process, just the interesting bits. You don't need to see slaughter. Just a pork chop presented in a nice shrink wrapped package.
"You cannot depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus."
- Mark Twain |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Wow there are a bunch of things to discuss in that original post.
Why don't they challenge our bizarre behavior? For the same reason they don't challenge similar in ballet or Kabuki theater. These are formal communications and follow a set format and use longstanding gesture/props to tell a story. They will accept the awkward stuff if you take them for a ride that has a payoff. The presumption that nobody questions is unfounded. MANY have become irked by the messages and statements of magicians. They say "I don't like magic", but what they mean is they don't care to played for fools or to sit for an insulting performance. Cutting a woman in half is a misogynistic act. Having an assistant giggle and smile for the thing suggests a certain view of the assistant and the situation. These are messages. And now a word about ballet... Louis XIV took the children of the nobles into his schools and ... taught the male children about animals and their behavior, and taught the female children ballet. The unspoken BUT CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD messages were that the boys might be hunted as animals if the King took offense, and that the families of the nobles should look at what he made the young women do as a warning that he could do worse if it pleased him. What specifically to you wish to offer your audiences in the way of a message? Whenever you perform, you communicate. You can choose your message.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Jeremy L. Special user 800 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-06-02 21:10, drkptrs1975 wrote: To contain the blood. |
Paul Sherman Inner circle Arlington, VA 1511 Posts |
I tend to think most people in the audience are thinking the same question: How does that trick box work?
This, incidentally, is why I don't like most stage illusions. For so many of them, the audience can fall back on the "trick box" explanation. This is different than them knowing that what they're seeing must be a trick (after all, it's a magic show, they show up for the tricks). No one looks at the traditional sawing "illusion" and thinks "I know it's a trick, but I can't believe it...it looks just like a person being cut in half."
"The finished card expert considers nothing too trivial that in any way contributes to his success..." Erdnase
some youtube videos |
BlackShadow Special user London UK 666 Posts |
Actually quite a few of them are questioning why he put her in the box or why the zombie ball was covered with the cloth. Some people enjoy magic as a puzzle like a battle of logic. Others just like to go with the flow and be taken in by the suggestion or mystery of it all. Magicians may be probing the technical aspects. Thus it is an artform that can be enjoyed from several perspectives.
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
Sometimes I wonder if they are questioning it in their head while not neccesarily speaking it out of their mouth.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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RandyStewart Inner circle Texas (USA) 1989 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-06-02 21:10, drkptrs1975 wrote: Good observation. I wouldn't say that "no one ever questions" but most don't care to do so as they welcome the challenge in suspension of disbelief or any state of wonder. Folks are suckers for that sort of thing and why not. Entertainment comes in so many flavors. As for asking why the woman is in a box prior to being cut in half, have you seen the slimline versions of this lately? The box hardly seems a gimmick to pull this off. David Copperfield's sawing self in half was almost too much for some audiences. One darn good reason many audience members do not question is , whether they know it or not, they have a great performer before their eyes and are "OK" with whatever the hell he/she is doing and how. |
Frank Tougas Inner circle Minneapolis, MN 1712 Posts |
It is about mindset. When people are watching a magician perform there is an element of "I wonder what is going to happen?" Only very analytical types, and they do exist, would question why. Those people seldom go willingly to a magic performance but are more often button holed by a performer anxious to show his stuff. Usually ending up with the performer perplexed about why this person "doesn't like magic."
People want to see the impossible and in so doing will overlook some of the discrepancies in magic. An example is if you can make a person disappear, why put them in anything, just poof and they are gone. Those who do the cross-cut force know the whole thing is a glaring discrepency, yet the failure rate is quite low. Later when trying to back engineer an illusion or effect they will get more critical of the out-points, but more often than not their memory of what actually transpired will be faulty and they continue to be perplexed. Frank Tougas
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Question to those who've sat through "Un Chien Andelou":
How long did you sit comfortably? Did you notice anything about the rest of the audience? Do you see a connection between this and attending a magic performance? For those who have not yet seen the film, this is a good opportunity to find the thing and watch it, see something special and then discuss your reactions on this tread. Enjoy!
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Frank Tougas Inner circle Minneapolis, MN 1712 Posts |
If I remember, Jonathan, it is about twenty minutes of torture. Very similar to ten minutes of card tricks. I wonder if it may not have been the first PsiOps film. Even knowing the eye being sliced is that of a cow and not a young woman, the watching is no less difficult. I will cringe and avert my eyes.
Frank Tougas
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
I find it similar to watching magic. After about five minutes and a good visceral cringe with the eye slicing (honestly NOT a living creature harmed). By the time I'm watching a guy watch ants crawl out of a hold in his hand, I feel more sympathetic to the ants and am looking for a way out or at least a clue as the the purpose of the proceedings. When the piano suffers an ordeal, I'm ready to give up too.
Sadly, most performances of the film do not end with Stacey Hayden playing the begining of "Station to Station" with a guitar solo. Instead we get left in the dark, wondering what happened. IMHO of course. IF the shoe fits, we might be living inside.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
One way, imo, is to actually find plausible answers to "justify" how we do what we do...
Take the guillotine illusion for instance, if the Magician uses an "execution" storyline... Then that'd make it make sense... The "Why" is important... We're all Actors playin the part of a Magician, are we not? Then script it properly... Justify it somehow... Sylvester the Jester does outrageous effects but he's justified it by being a "Living Cartoon Character", so it works great... People won't find his stiff jacket out of place, and he uses that apparatus to good use... The problem, imo, is that lots of us don't want the extra trouble of thinking and justifying everything through and through... (I'm at fault of this myself sometimes...) So, we end up designing the sawing in half and routining it exactly as it has been routined all these years... You do the same thing, you get the same result... Just off the top of my head, if you've justified the "box" for sawing as a "restraint" to keep an unwilling assistant "in place"...(serious or comedic, up to you...) It then would make sense... I've actually seen this storyline used to great effect... One other example... The teleportation effects for staged Star Trek shows "make sense" as the apparatus (the "Teleporter") in question is a "machine" that does the effect... There is NO SUCH THING in real life, but the storyline justifies the suspension of disbelief as we've seen Star Trek on TV before... No one needs to ask "What's with the trick box that they have to stand in before disappearing?"... It makes perfect sense in this story... Imo, most Stage Illusions are played SOLELY for the "Effect" and not the "Presentation"... That's why the audience thinks "What's with the Trick Box?"... Justify the apparatus, big or small, in the storyline (eg The Guillotine Illusion), and the question will no longer be relevant... Imo... But that's just what I think...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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