The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » Al Schneider Technique DVD - Some Questions (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
zhuanan
View Profile
Veteran user
383 Posts

Profile of zhuanan
Hi Guys:


I was searching for review for "Al Schneider Technique DVD" but to no avail.
Would appreciate if someone could give me some feedback on the following effects from the abovementioned DVD

1) AL SCHNEIDER'S BASIC VANISH

- can we shown both hands empty for this vanish?
- what is the difficulty level for this vanish?

2) CHINK-A-CHINK (SHADOW COINS)

- what will the spectator see for this effect? (checked through a few dealers but
noted no description for this effect)

3) QUICK CUPS

- What is the difference between this effect and the classic Cups and Balls?

4) SNAP BACK MOVE

- What will the spectator see? (checked through a few dealers but
noted no description for this effect)

5) SPELLBOUND

- What is this effect? (checked through a few dealers but
noted no description for this effect)

6) POP-UP MOVE

- Is this the same as the usual closer for ACR move?

7) PERFECT PALM

- [Palm a card with the audience looking directly at your hands - description ]
- what if my palm is not big enough to conceal the whole card, can I still perform
perfect palm? Will I get busted?

8) CARD TO CARD CASE

- Does this effect require p*****g?
- can signed card be used?
- is the card case examinable?

9) HIMBER WALLET ROUTINE

- Can I perform this by using Pimpernel Notecase?

10) CUPS AND BALLS

- What is the main difference between this version and other versions in the
market?

11) CARD TO ENVELOPE

- What is the difference between this version and "Special Delivery" and "Black
Envelope"?
- Is the envelope examinable?
- Is p*****g required?


Many thanks!
magicinsight
View Profile
Inner circle
3833 Posts

Profile of magicinsight
Zhuanan,

Some questions!?

You are asking many questions which involves revealing techniques and methods which should not be discussed in this section. Nevertheless, I will try to briefly respond to some of your inquiries and hope they are helpful to you. You should purchase these DVDs as they contain excellent magic.

The basic vanish is relatively easy to master if you practice. The technique in of itself is not difficult but you do have to practice the timing and make the movements natural. The difficulty level is within the realm of beginners.

Chink a Chink is not a marketed effect but rather a routine for coins across using ungimmicked, regular coins where the fingers of the hands are raised above the surface of the table. Michael Ammar and David Roth have their own versions.

Quick Cups and Balls is Mr. Schneider's own version of the cups and balls. There are multiple versions.

Spellbound is again not a marketed effect but a classic routine involving the changing of one ungimmicked coin for another at the finger tips. It is called "spellbound" because that is the name of the technique that is used to manifest the change. Normally the change involves a silver coin and a copper coin.

Card to Card case does use p...... The card can be signed and the card case is ungimmicked and can be examined.

Himber wallet routine must use a himber style wallet. You cannot use your pimpernel wallet.

Card to wallet is a variation of the other effects you mentioned. The technique is different but accomplishes the same thing. Only one envelope can be examined. But whay would the audiecne want to examine the envelope if done correctly. The envelope used in special delivery cannot be examined but it is also an excellent effect by Mr. David Regal.

Bottom line is that these are terrific DVDS and you will learn a lot of excellent magic. I also recommend Mr. Johnny Thompson's four DVD set, I beleive they are called, "Classic's of Magic."

Best regards,

Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver
anticoin
View Profile
Regular user
194 Posts

Profile of anticoin
I have these DVDs. They are the standard DVDs out there. If you consider them good, then these DVDs are good too. It's good, but nothing outstanding
David Eichler
View Profile
Grammar Host
Durham, ME
1743 Posts

Profile of David Eichler
I disagree with anticoin. I think that the magic theories that Mr. Schneider shares with us in the set (particularly the first DVD) are quite valuable. The information he shares can be, in the hands of a skilled performer, much more valuable than just the effects he discloses.

David
Richard Shippy
View Profile
Special user
Scottsdale, Arizona
510 Posts

Profile of Richard Shippy
I agree with David. Volume 1 can be extremely valuable towards improving your magic as a whole. He teaches you how to fish rather than just feeding you. Of all DVDs in the set I really enjoyed volume #1.

Kind regards,
Rich
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." ~ Winston Churchill
Al Schneider
View Profile
V.I.P.
A corn field in WI surrounded by
1080 Posts

Profile of Al Schneider
A few comments about my own stuff.
If you study the material in Volume one you will realize that a lot of my magic is what I call virtual magic. Virtual magic is magic that stands on its own. It does not require theatrical techniques to achieve the magic. In fact, in viritual magic the audience does not know who or what caused the effect to occur. As a consequence, in this type of magic the performer does not get credit for the magic. Now, while the audience gives credit to the performer for putting the effect on the table, they will tend not to give him credit for doing it. This is true for the audience simply has no idea of what made it happen. What most magician do not realize is that the concepts are aimed at laymen. These effects can scare them. I have had people duck behind chairs during my performances. I have had people stand and walk away because I was in league with the devil. In short, these things were designed to scare laymen. Those that know some secrets say that they are boring. Curiously when I did the shoot at L&L, one of the pretty ladies on the set approached me and said, "You are different than all the other performers that I have watched here." "When you do that stuff I can't see anything. It just happens all by itself."
Non-virtual magic gets a lot of attention and praise because the audinece has an idea of what is going on. They see the skill of the performer and are awed at that and react to that. I wish I could tell you the times I have watched a performer doing some performance and the audience applauds when the guy does the vanish of a coin. They are not applauding when the coin is shown gone, they are applauding when the coin is transfered. They are applauding when they shouldn't be. These people puff out their chest and think they are doing great.
Consider the vanishing bird cage. Did you know that no one reacts when the cage disappears? I did it one time as an opener in my stand up show. I thought it was an awful trick. No one ever said anything or even applauded. Blackstone had to do it again and add some comedy to get a reaction out of it. However, after the show people were coming up to me and asking, "Where did the bird go?" It really is a great effect.
Then there is another point here. On Volume One I perform a trick without explaining it. I have had people tell me that that one trick is the only good trick on the tapes. The reason for this is that it is the only trick they didn't know how it worked.
As magicians we deal with two universes. We see the mechanics and must understand what the audience sees. These must be different from each other for magic to occur. All to often they are not different.
Al Schneider
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
Frank Tougas
View Profile
Inner circle
Minneapolis, MN
1712 Posts

Profile of Frank Tougas
Doesn't the name anticoin kind of say it all? BTW just to set the record straight, Spellbound was a manuscript by Dai Vernon sold years ago by Al Goshman who loved Spellbound and did it flawlessly. The manuscript is probably no longer available but it was taken directly from the Stars of Magic series which may still be obtainable.
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
Turk
View Profile
Inner circle
Portland, OR
3545 Posts

Profile of Turk
Quote:
On 2005-06-19 14:53, Richard Shippy wrote:
I agree with David. Volume 1 can be extremely valuable towards improving your magic as a whole. He teaches you how to fish rather than just feeding you. Of all DVDs in the set I really enjoyed volume #1.

Kind regards,
Rich


Rich,

Great comment! Very succinctly put. "He teaches you to fish rather than just feeding you". The entire set if very good but the magic theory taught on vol 1 makes this an invaluable DVD to own.

Mike
Magic is a vanishing Art.

This must not be Kansas anymore, Toto.

Eschew obfuscation.
Tom Cutts
View Profile
Staff
Northern CA
5826 Posts

Profile of Tom Cutts
Hello Al,

I know what you mean to express but the elements of tension and relaxation, blocking, and timing are theatrical techniques which you use brilliantly. Perhaps the term theatrical tricks or gimmicks, or maybe theatrical clichés would more accurately illuminate your perspective on what you do not use. Then again, maybe it is just me.

Cheers,

Tom
Al Schneider
View Profile
V.I.P.
A corn field in WI surrounded by
1080 Posts

Profile of Al Schneider
Mr Tom Cutts
Well put.
But then a problem.
Are elements of tension and relaxation, blocking, and timing part of theater only? I essentially am a physicist. In my classes my professors often demonstrated experiemnts for the class. They are often entertaining. They, as far as I know, never took a class in acting. These guys just don't do that.
When I do magic I adopt that venue. My audience is my physics class and I am demonstrating some phenomena. I do not depend upon suspension of belief to get the magic across. Perhaps this is what I am aiming at and you are questioning.
In a sense to suspend disbelief one must know what is happening so one can suspend disbelief relative to that being observed. In virtual magic one does not need the suspension of disbelief for the observer simply does not know what is happening. I can go on more with this if you wish. Recently I have come across some thinking that indicates there is an aspect to magic many other things do not have. That is that magic actually creates reality for the audinece. Where theater uses suspension of disbelief magic can (sometimes) create reality for the audience. This is very subtle. Most theater types twist it to say it is theater.
One other thing. My stuff can be boring. My quest is to fool the audience. Most of magic does only a marginal job at this. Hence the rule, "Don't do a trick more than once." Much of my good stuff can be repeated and still get a good response. However, this limits what I can do and so it can become boring. I have been told another thing. When I do magic, I do not do anything and the magic happens. This leaves the audience in a wierd position. They do not know if what I did was difficult or not. To them the magic just happens. To them it might be a natural event, kind of like pictures on a TV screen. Few know how that works. While I have had people express shock over what I have done, I have also had people ask me, "Is this normal or should I be impressed?" In this situation they simply cannot explain how a coin got from A to B. However, I do it without wierd body stuff and talk without emotion in my voice. I can tell someone a magic wand is a new device from NASA, make a coin disappear and they say, "Oh."
Then there is another factor to all of this. This may be theater concepts, don't know. My style of performance is geared to a specific kind of environment. I tend to perform in higher class setting in which I am at a small table in a private room. The room is dark and only a few people are allowed to sit and watch. This boring stuff I do comes alive here. I can focus the attention of the audience precisely where I want it to be. In this environment the audience is looking directly at the move and magic at exactly the time it all occurs. They really get a chance to see the magic. When the show is over they walk away babbling to themseleves. And this is not a figure of speech. They really do. During this kind of show I am performing a significant magical effect every ten seconds. Most of this kind of magic is not suitable for walk around, street, bars and so on. It works there but not a well as in this rather sterile environment.
A very dear friend, Paul Critelli from Grand Rapids Michigan, says that if he absolutly needed someone that could fool the audience that would be me. However, again I must point out two things. My goal is not to entertain but to scare with what appears as real magic. Second, I am not a professional. So let me make this clear. I will allow my opinions to slip to second place if I trade such opinions with a real professional.
Before I leave here is one more thing I have to say. Often I am approached and shown or told about some kind of trick and asked, "What do you think?" My response always is, "I do not know, you must perform it for real people at least twenty times and see how it goes."
Finally, a lot of this thinking is in Volume One. It was produced with the intent of becoming a worthy work and valuable for many years.
Al Schneider
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
Frank Tougas
View Profile
Inner circle
Minneapolis, MN
1712 Posts

Profile of Frank Tougas
Magic although theatrical looking at times, as well as often performed in a theater is not theater per se. Theater and magic have had separate histories, separate beginnings, separate purposes, and often quite differing effects on those who watch. Although they have been married up for many years as are married couples, still individuals.

Frank Tougas
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
magicinsight
View Profile
Inner circle
3833 Posts

Profile of magicinsight
When I watched the DVDs for the first time, what initially struck me the most was the laid back and unassumming approach of Mr. Schnieder when the magic routines were being performed. Reading Mr. Schneider's comments above confirmed in my mind that the magic was indeed intentionally performed with a laid back, passive style and clarified the reasoning behind this type of approach. Simply put, the magic just happens. The magician, in this case Mr. Schneider, is an innocent observer and passive particpant who happens to move the cards and coins around while the magic happens. I believe this approach, which may not be suitable to every perfomer, certainly creates and enhances a clam and relzed atmosphere that increases the impact of the magic on the audience.

I really enjoyed the DVDs and need to watch them over and over again.

Best regards,

Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver
Tom Cutts
View Profile
Staff
Northern CA
5826 Posts

Profile of Tom Cutts
Al,

(I say with cordiality because we have met...)

Interesting point. Can theater only be considered that which is accept as fake but believed in the moment for entertainment's sake?

I am in no disagreement with you and fully understand your distrust in the use of the phrase "Theatrical Techniques". I merely point out that these are the same techniques which the very best of actors use to deliver the very best of performances as well as the very best of con men use to create new realities. Neither of which may be what we do.

I am in agreement to see the traditional idea of "suspension of disbelief" as a bit of a cop out for exactly the reasons you have out forth. I choose the phrase, "Willful Investment in Belief". You, however, may well be creating a more forceful approach where there is no other choice, like it or not. Said with a nod and a wink to those who say there is always another option. Yes, there could be but which is emotionally committed to during and after the (Al's) performance?

Can we assume one can play a part so well that those witnessing the play take it for real? At that point does it cease to be theater and become something else?

Interesting perspectives.

Cheers,

Tom

The DVDs are brilliant BTW. I would have been at the taping but I was performing in Turkey at the time.
Joe Mauro
View Profile
Inner circle
1133 Posts

Profile of Joe Mauro
I've been usng Mr.Schneider's basic coin vanish and fooling people in a different way than when I used the french drop. When I would do the french drop, they would always look to my other hand. After getting caught a couple of times I started lapping the coin. BUt wiht the basic coin vanish, they have a kind of stunned look. They never consider my other hand.
~Joe
Al Schneider
View Profile
V.I.P.
A corn field in WI surrounded by
1080 Posts

Profile of Al Schneider
Dear Mr. Mauro
Thank you for such a nice report on using the move.
Here is a story that supports your story. It is in my book on theory so I am repeating a bit here.
One of my students long ago was a guy named Karrell Hovland. He worked in a magic shop in Hopkins, MN, which is where I now live. One day two teenage girls walked in and browsed a bit and asked if he did magic. He said yes and got out a ball vase. At the time we had been playing with the vase and some sophisticated routines. In one particular routine the ball was vanished with the Schenider Vanish. (This was called basic vanish ) He puts the vase on the table lifts the lid, dumps the ball into a hand and causes it to disappear. The girls are shocked. One grabs the left arm and searches through his sleeve. The other grabbed his right arm and searches through that sleeve. The other then lifts the pad on the counter. The other then leans way over the counter to look behind it to see if it fell on the floor. They went nuts. All the while it is in FP in his right hand. As you mentioned, they never considered looking there.

Now I would like to add some complexity to Tomm Cutts comments. I am sorry I have trouble following the thread of all this. To clarify my thoughts a bit I would like to indicate that the basis of magic is the assumptions people make. We do not make them see something. We build an image and put it before the audience. Then they make an assumption about what they see. In the stituation with the two girls, they did not suspend disbelief for a second. They knew the ball was in the hand. When the hand was opened it was gone. They did not suspend disbelief for a microsecond. They knew that magic had not happened. Ask them and they will tell you that Karrell somhow got it out of his hand. The point here is that the move was accepted as reality. They assumed what Karrell wanted them to assume. If there was any force applied to cause them to assume so, the reality would be defeated.

Consider how we have been taught magic in the past. A performer does a move. It is clever and looks nice. It really looks like the coin goes into the other hand. Then the performer (and here I mean actor) mime's the coin being tossed into the air and vanishing into nothing. The audience is pleased. It looks just like magic. Due the artfull presentation of the actor the audience has suspended disbelief and think its wonderful.

In my method I do not get that. Yes, I am boring. The audience just wants to know where the d___ ball went.

Now I am not certain what is the right thing to say and what the right theory is. This is why in my earlier comments I say, "Perform the trick 20 times for real people and see how it goes."

I am a very theoritical person however I believe that the theory must be tested against the heat of normal people. And teenage girls are as about as much heat as you will find.
Al Schneider
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
Dan Watkins
View Profile
Inner circle
PA
3028 Posts

Profile of Dan Watkins
Quote:
teenage girls are as about as much heat as you will find.
Al Schneider


Sounds like a new line for your Signature?
Click to visit:
Image
Review King
View Profile
Eternal Order
14446 Posts

Profile of Review King
I have the first 2 DVD's. Both are winners.

The basic coin vanish is quite interesting. I like the way I do my vanish and wasn't really open to changing it to this one. But, I found Al's comments about magic so fascinating, that I decided to give it a try. I was quite surprised at how different the reactions were to the false transfer I have used. I've always love getting reactions like "no way" or "do that again". You won't get that with Al's vanish. People just stare at the hand that the coin vanished in. I suggest everyone try this, even if only as an experiment in audience reactions.

I love Matrix and like many, have experimented with quite a few. Al's thoughts on his own effect are a must for any student of the effect.

He does teach a way that he used to perform the effect where the pickup move is only used once and quite frankly, I like that better. It seems more magical without taking away from the goal he wanted to achieve.

Al, if you read this, I was curious. I've always heard the pickup move referred to as the Dingle/Schneider pickup up move. You didn't mention Derek's contribution on the DVD, so I was wondering should folks call it that.

I liked the L&L audience on these DVD’s. Some favorites were there like Janel and Tania. But the others were a pleasant surprise.

A final thought. Al's performance style and teaching style are much different thgan others we know. He has "the x factor". That special something that the greats have, that can't be taught. His is quite subtle. Very charming and you feel like he's talking directly to you when explaining.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Al Schneider
View Profile
V.I.P.
A corn field in WI surrounded by
1080 Posts

Profile of Al Schneider
Dear MagicChris
Thank you for your very kind comments.
You asked why I do not give credit to Dingle for the move.
The answer is that there is no credit due.
It was my idea from the gitgo and I did it for years before showing it to him.
We had a get together at a Columbus Magi-Fest one year and I shared it with him
This has been gone over in many places. A year later it was in his book with no credit to me. He was in the process of having it published. After several people brow beat him to convince him it was not his, he condesended to say something in his book that I cooperated somehow in its invention. I do not know what is in the book because I haven't seen it. However, I have seen him do it. He does it wrong.

A similiar situation occured with Larry Jennings. I essentially grew up magically
with him in Detroit. We had many sessions together. One day I bumped into
him at a magic event long after he left Detroit and he pulled me aside. He appoligized to me profusly for putting my stuff into one of his books. He explained the producers of the book told him not to worry about credit, just get on with it.

Many people have asked me how I feel about the acquisiton of the name matrix and the moves. I say I do not know how to feel. The only consequence of this is that I do not police my own publications as effectively as I should. I just don't care about credit because no one seems to care about mine.

It seems that those that worry about it are only worried about their own.

At one time I combed another author's book for some theoritical insight to simply steal. Most of the stuff was worthless. But at the end of one chapter I found something brilliant. I had to start the few paragraphs over a few times to ponder the concept involved. I searched my soul to see if I really wanted to just lift this stuff. Then, as I read on the author credited me with the ideas. At that point I just throw up my hands and watch the show.

I have traveled through Europe a bit. My stuff is all over the place. I have even seen my stuff in books written for the public. Some drawings in the books look just like my hands. It seems those in the Magic Mafia get the credit and worry about such things. I am not one of the insiders on anyone's list. So, I guess my material is considered fair game.

I guess I got carried away here. It is a senior moment I guess. Thanks for the comments and I'll read you later.

I really appreciate your comments.
Al Schneider
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
Review King
View Profile
Eternal Order
14446 Posts

Profile of Review King
Al, thanks for taking the time to clear up the Dingle miscomception. Maybe the known teachers of magic will stop using his name in association with your move.

I think you have every right to go on a rant about crediting. If I invented Matrix, I doubt I would have ever shown it to another magician. It's too fantastic an effect to be taken lightly. But I would have gone nuts if anyone had taken a move, ro concept without proper credit. Just from a mutual respect stand point.

As far as the move, I've been doing it wrong. Your move makes it a killer, subtle, sleight. When I watched the DVD, I missed it. You did it so casualy, I was taken off guard. And...I was looking for the darn thing.

Your friend in magic,
Chris
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
magicinsight
View Profile
Inner circle
3833 Posts

Profile of magicinsight
I would also add that Mr. Schneider's slight and subtle variation of the move involving lapping technique is interesting and addresses the appropriate timing of when to do the lapping. The subtle variation takes note of when and what the spectators are observing the performer's hands and makes the lapping technique much more deceptive.

Michael
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » Al Schneider Technique DVD - Some Questions (5 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
X
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.28 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL