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KidCrenshaw Special user USA 537 Posts |
I'm so confused.
The trick seemingly can't be explained, yet so many have read an explanation. Is the reason you can't "explain" it because doing so would reveal the secret? Or is this the jest of it: Someone else shuffles a deck, and counts or spells a card, effectively counting to their card? Is there just this one phase, can it be repeated? Do you reveal the card, or do they? I don't understand the "excercise" either. Forgive my ignorance, but I've only heard of this name before. Now that I read more about it, I am becoming increasingly interested. Please help me.
"Put your faith in Providence, but always cut the cards"
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Consider yourself forgiven AFTER you do the homework, find and read the thing and think about it.
Help.... okay READ. Those who DO the thing find the subject tiresome unless discussing with others who DO the trick. I'm sorry magic still has some who like to tease about tricks, and especially about tricks that are not theirs. You do know that the trick is in print and there are variations in print too... right? When you do more reading, you find goodies worth performing. Discussing tricks as if they were puzzles with answers that will help you become a better person or performoer is ... misguided. After you've read the original we can discuss stragies. Okay?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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KidCrenshaw Special user USA 537 Posts |
Hey Jonathan, lighten up. My post was mostly cynical comments from a good-humored frustration of the subject, okay?
I've never asked for handouts, and I don't intend to now. I have read in this thread that there were several in-print instructionals. I have a nice collection of books at my disposal, and prefer the medium for learning. I thought asking other knowledgeable magicians was doing your homework, part of it anyway. I was simply asking for, an EFFECT explanation. You know, that thing you get with all of the other tricks on the market? Even more I was curious as to whether the name had more meaning to it than just a clever pun intended to arouse interest. Thanks for not much. Most of my questions remain unanswered even after your attempt at clarification using the caps lock key. I really don't appreciate your condescending language while enlightening me on the fruits and joys of reading a book. I'm well aware of the advantages of reading, thank you.
"Put your faith in Providence, but always cut the cards"
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Paul Sherman Inner circle Arlington, VA 1511 Posts |
Unfortunately, there isn't an effect explanation any more specific than "you pick a card, I find it". "The Trick That Cannot Be Explained" is more of a concept than an individual "effect".
"The finished card expert considers nothing too trivial that in any way contributes to his success..." Erdnase
some youtube videos |
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KidCrenshaw Special user USA 537 Posts |
Well that certainly was accomplishable I think. I can live with vagueness, at least I have an idea of the effect now.
Thank you, Paul. Forgive my side-topic, I'd like to read more opinions of the effect.
"Put your faith in Providence, but always cut the cards"
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njh Regular user Baltimore, MD 143 Posts |
I try this usually once in every extended performance. I have a high rate of sucess and I absolutely love it. The best experience I've had was when it worked twice in a row, with NO outs required. I highly reccomend it.
Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm.
-Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
The effect reads as:
Spec thinks/names any card, and the magician reveals it in an amazing way. can it be repeated? yah, but the problem is that unless the first production/reveal was weak, the repetition will be, or might be I should say, an anti-climax. I also think the "answer" you posted johny was a little harsh. and conveluded. But I still love you, and your 200 million posts... The problem with asking for an explanation to this trick is its the trick that cant be explained... :(
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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Luther Regular user 103 Posts |
I personally feel the trick is overrated.
It's a "great mystery" of the old masters but really lacks any conviction or anything that would make it into a good effect. That said I should suggest a variation on the effect by Jon Racherbaumer aptly titled "The Trick That Can Be Explained". Its to the point. |
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PaulGreen Inner circle 1133 Posts |
The Trick That Cannot Be Explained is not for someone new to Magic. It requires a tremendous amount of performing skill and the ability to "think on your feet". With the proper attitude and confidence, this trick can absolutely devastate an audience.
I might suggest the new manuscript from Ron Bauer, Milt Kort's Think A Card routine is quite good and has the feel of the original Vernon routine. Further, I would also point you towards Alex Elmsely's Fate's DateBook. This was Elmsley's brilliant approach to the Vernon routine. In my own way, I contributed the Fortunetellers' Book of Days to the community as a variation. Enjoy the search! Regards, Paul Green |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-06-13 22:36, Nordatrax wrote: Presentation of Lorayne's Calculated Risk (a TTCBE variation) can be very polished; mine is. Quote:
On 2005-06-13 19:22, Nordatrax wrote: That is, I believe, the point. Perform this when you have a great way to produce or reveal a card from every part of the deck without looking like you're thinking. Until you've reached that point, you're not ready to perform this effect. When you have, you are. |
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Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts |
I think that there may be a bit of a misunderstanding here regarding the "improvisational" nature of this routine. Yes, you do improvise a bit, but to revisit Paul's jazz analogy, you aren't improvising the entire song, just a part of it. I know in advance what trick I'm doing and which card is the target. When you do this effect a lot, you will be amazed at how often it all "just works out" by itself.
I do this routine all the time to excellent effect. I do not do it multiple times for the same audience in the same setting. As such, for me, it has always played VERY well and been a highlight of my act.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page |
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
I would hounestly like to see someone does vernons method well.
Unless your using a memorized deck, I don't see the reason to do this in a show. Why not cull it and go on with the trick? :)
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts |
I can assure you that I perform very regularly--it is my full-time occupation--and the bulk of my business is repeat and referral bookings. My audiences are amazed and entertained by this routine as well as the others I do. That is what matters to me, not whether you see a reason to do it, or whether you like the effect.
There are effects I personally can't stand and don't perform, but that in no way means that others don't do them well and get good response from them. :)
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page |
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10cardsdown Special user Out There Somewhere 664 Posts |
Because if its the same as mine then YOU CAN NEVER BE POLISHED WHILE DOING THE TRICK THAT CANNOT BE EXPLAINED.
I hope someday I perform mine for you, I guarantee you it will fool you . . . you will not see it coming. Then, you might change your tune, but for now, we can agree to disagree. |
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Open Traveller Inner circle 1087 Posts |
I can see where Nordatrax comes from, but I must respectfully disagree. While you're in part "jazzing" the trick, you're only jazzing the method, and one who's practiced this effect and is well-versed in magical means has no problem jazzing good methods on the spot in every moment.
The reason the effect can and does look polished in the hands of some performers is because while they're jazzing the method, they have a very specific presentational framework they're adhering to. Because of this, the audience perceives that when they see this effect, it works this exact same way every single time. They perceive this because the performer's framework is so well laid out that there's no other conclusion to reach. The presentation allows the performer to adjust as he goes but looks consistent to the spectators (and even foreshadows the conclusion). Since the audience hopefully only sees the presentation and not the method (and equally hopefully the performer is adept with his methods), then this effect can and does look just as polished as any other in a professional setting. The only argument I can see against performing this effect in some settings is that it runs a tad longer than one would normally like before there's a payoff. However, at the right time and in the right place, that payoff is more than worth it, because this trick can absolutely destroy an audience. |
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10cardsdown Special user Out There Somewhere 664 Posts |
Open Traveller,
AGREED! |
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Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
First, let me say this: Mr Guinn, I was joking. You have me as a fan after your blowing smoke articles.
so don't mind me, Im just blowing yadda yadda yadda... you know the rest. I think the big issue I have is that were discussing diffrent tricks. If you have a method for producing every card, and a polished routine to go along with it, its not vernons original. The trick that couldn't be explained was rightly so because he made up the method, misdirection, timing and pacing on the spot. A great exercise for those who are techniqually and presentationally sound. If you have a presentation that's been thought out, and a methodology, then it may not only be polished, but brilliant! except its not the trick that cant be explained. Ill mention it again: Mike closes trick that can be explained. Its very similar to vernons in presentation (except more polished), a compleat fooler, except it has a well thought out methodology. If that's cleared up, then I don't believe your doing the vernon original, but your doing the closest thing to it and Im sure it kills.
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
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ROBERT BLAKE Inner circle 1472 Posts |
I do MNEMONICOSIS (juan Tamariz / mnemonica) wich is the same effect but because of the memorized deck you wil always finish (and polished) because you have your fixed outs.
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Open Traveller Inner circle 1087 Posts |
Well, we may be getting to the point of just quibbling terms, Nordatrax.
I don't know of any performers who have "a method for producing every card" in the deck, but what they do have is a repertoire of procedures that allow them to make up methods on the spot to get where they need to be. That completely uncontrollable part of the trick means that quite often these performers have to make up misdirection, timing and pacing on the spot as well, but they're almost always (not absolutely) within their sphere of ability to do so. But you've laid down a definition of "The Trick That Can't Be Explained" that's new to me, in the sense that if the conditions don't completely conform to the those of the original, then that's absolutely not it. To me, that's almost like saying if I use an Ace through Four instead of all Aces I'm no longer doing Vernon's "Twisting the Aces." I see some wiggle room that allows for a large family of effects that all fit within TTTCBE's umbrella, some closer to the original than others. |
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Nik_Mikas Regular user Toronto, Ontario, Canada 159 Posts |
Ben, you are incorrect. Vernon specifically states that the outcome of the trick is dependant on your overall knowledge of card magic. Thus, to trick's success depends on your ability to cull methods of arriving at a successful conclusion. So if you have a method for every card, you are still doing the Trick That Cannot Be Explained; you are just very well versed in card magic.
To be fair, I think it's safe to say TTTCBE is more of a principle or concept than a routine. |
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