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Pekka Special user Finland 560 Posts |
Luckily in my country Draw Poker is what is often referred as "normal poker", so if you are ever in Finland do your demos as draw poker. Hold'em is just arriving here and Omaha is practically unknown. We do however have a variation of it where a player has one hole card and four cards showing.
BlackJack demos, on the other hand, are more difficult since all of the gaming rooms deal from th eshoe and has a 6 deck, hmmm...deck?! Gambling is a state own monopoly so there is unified rules in every gaming room in the country. This does not mean that it would be impossible to entertain people with other kind of BJ demos but it would not be as effective. This just so that Art and everyone remembers that each country has their own unique gambling culture and to be really really good in entertaining, one should always try to localise the demonstration. |
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art the magic guy! Regular user back in the USA, FINALLY!! 159 Posts |
Ah Mago, let me get the name of that casino!!! Im feeling lucky tonight
I AM AN AMERICAN SOLDIER
I will ALWAYS place the mission first I will NEVER accept defeat I will NEVER quit I will NEVER leave a fallen comrade ----I AM AN AMERICAN SOLDIER---- |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
First of all people are talking about two different kinds of worlds when it comes to playing cards.
The first world is the world of playing cards in a casino. The other is the friendly little game that could be in a hotel or other locations. When I used to pay cards it was draw poker and five card stud. Then baseball or six card stud became popular because there is a better chance to get a hand. That is why Texas Holdem is very popular today. The way the cards are dealt there is a very good chance to get a hand. It looks good on camera when a player gets a hand by luck on the turn card or the river card - this is drama. But what a card shark or an advantage player gets away with most likely would depend on where the game is and who they sit in with. So when you talk about card games there are games played in a casino and then also those friendly little games that are played outside the casino in hotels and other places. If someone were to cheat a casino and get caught that is a felony and most likely they will get a record. People advantage play under their own risk. And I have not played cards in years. And my only interest now is learning the card shark moves and then using them in magic to entertain the audience.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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art the magic guy! Regular user back in the USA, FINALLY!! 159 Posts |
Oo so true Mr Pekka, gambling is dependent on the region. Here in Iraq, after demonstrationg a few tricks to some iraqui soldiers, they looked at me like I was satan himself, and refused to touch the deck!! but they can play some mean domino...
so guess a good domino cheating demo will work around here...
I AM AN AMERICAN SOLDIER
I will ALWAYS place the mission first I will NEVER accept defeat I will NEVER quit I will NEVER leave a fallen comrade ----I AM AN AMERICAN SOLDIER---- |
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Tom Wolf Special user Harrison, Ohio 580 Posts |
Well Art,
If you are not convinced by my message, just send an email to Any casino in Vegas, for example and tell them that you have a math system to beat craps and would like to play there. You Will get a reply to "come, you are most welcome". All Legal casinos in the world welcome system players as long as the table is not too crowded. Card counting is different from what I am refering to. Do a search and learn. You will be surprised what you will learn and your knowledge will broaden. Best to you. Tom Wolf
The magic director and performer at the Rincon Gaucho supper club in Mexico City,
We opened the first and only close-up room for magic in Mexico with Wolf Ruvinskis. have several new coin vanishes and routines to share shortly just as soon as I can find someone to film them for me. Now living in Harrison, Ohio |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
System going well. Send more money!
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1728 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-06-13 13:55, mago wrote: I'd be interested in hearing about these. Unless you've been reading Grosjean (and you haven't), I'll bet you can't name a single way to gain an edge over the casinos at craps. JDE
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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iamslow Inner circle Proffessional Slacker 2001 Posts |
Just play Jedi Mindtricks on the break-ins???
"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
The man who broke the bank at Monte Carlo had a system; getting people to back him. He could never loose as he was playing with other peoples money. Breaking the bank at Monte Carlo was not hard because they only had a small cash float and it was broken many times but it did not mean they had been sent skint, they had plenty of money in the real bank. He lived on the reputation as the man who broke the bank at Monte Carlo as people thought he had a system.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Tom Wolf Special user Harrison, Ohio 580 Posts |
Hello Jason,
You would lose your bet. I have no reason to lie and you have Not researched turning the odds in your favor. For example, in craps, it is very easy to turn the odds 4-1 in your favor that in the next throw of the dice, you will have these odds. Another would turn the odds 5-1 in your favor. If you had studied and did a search on the web, for example, you could have learned what has been known for many years. I have had enough now trying to convince those who think that it cannot be done. I am a ex-casino mangaer and I can tell you that we knew about these "systems" years ago. The problem is that If you continue to use them, YOU WILL LOOSE IN THE LONG RUN> At any one given time, one Can turn the odds in one's favor. I do not intend to help some one find out how. Just do a search and learn. Tom Wolf Tommy, You just gave the only way to make money in the casinos in the long run! All you need is a mark that you can convince you can beat the casinos and then play with his or her money! You can never lose........ At least not your money...Lol.. Hello Jason, How would you like to make the bet? Let us make it worth while.
The magic director and performer at the Rincon Gaucho supper club in Mexico City,
We opened the first and only close-up room for magic in Mexico with Wolf Ruvinskis. have several new coin vanishes and routines to share shortly just as soon as I can find someone to film them for me. Now living in Harrison, Ohio |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
I hope no one mentions the wheel, because Tom will get another idea.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Tom Wolf Special user Harrison, Ohio 580 Posts |
Yes, Tommy.
What happens when you place 2 bets, one on column 1 and the other on colum 2? Did you not turn the odds in your favor? Trust me on this, I know what I am speaking of. How many numbers do you have going for you Tommy and how many for the house? Hmmmmmmmmmmm..
The magic director and performer at the Rincon Gaucho supper club in Mexico City,
We opened the first and only close-up room for magic in Mexico with Wolf Ruvinskis. have several new coin vanishes and routines to share shortly just as soon as I can find someone to film them for me. Now living in Harrison, Ohio |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Tom
Sorry but I do trust you on this. Betting odds on does NOT turn the odds in you favour. It just means your better than evens to win. In your example the odds your getting payed is 1 to 2 but the true odds are more than that by a fraction: 13 to 24 with one zero and in the States they have two zeros, so you are 14 to 24. Niether is is 1 to 2 which is all your getting. According to your logic you back all the numbers and be certain to win. Try it, put a buck on every number and then count your money and see how much have. You are kidding I think.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Tom Wolf Special user Harrison, Ohio 580 Posts |
Well that explains why you do not believe me Tommy.
What I just said does turn the odds in your favor. Ask anyone that works in a casino pit. Check your pm
The magic director and performer at the Rincon Gaucho supper club in Mexico City,
We opened the first and only close-up room for magic in Mexico with Wolf Ruvinskis. have several new coin vanishes and routines to share shortly just as soon as I can find someone to film them for me. Now living in Harrison, Ohio |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
It is not a matter of believing you Tom it is a matter of simple mathermatics and we can ask the casino pit if we want but what ever they tell us 2+2 will still be 4.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
I look at casino games like I look at the shell game or three card Monte. The Odds of winning are three to one. The chance of winning because of the mob and the operator is zero.
People mix up odds and chance all the time. Improving the odds rarely improves chance over the long play or over the long haul.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Halloween New user San Diego 9 Posts |
Back to the original post: You might want to check out the DVD's by a guy named Richard Turner. You will not be disappointed...
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Yes Richard Turner is cool. I think he does some of the greatest work I have ever seen.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1728 Posts |
Hey Tom,
I think you're confused. I don't mean that you can't on occasion get a favorable outcome from time to time. I mean that you can't establish, and maintain, an edge at craps (or roulette) for that matter without manipulation of the items in play. You specifically said, "There are ways to turn the odds in your favor at Craps, etc." Now, everyone knows that there are times when you have a trivial "edge" over the house (like when you have 20 to the dealer's 16 in blackjack and he has to hit), or in the craps example given below (betting the Don't vs a player point of 4), but you didn't strike me as the type to trumpet these fleeting moments (that can't be exploited for profit) as "turning the odds in your favor." So obviously you meant some other bet or series of bets that will give you an edge (however slight). Perhaps you were thinking of something like betting multiple columns at roulette? I'll go you one better. If you bet every straight-up number at roulette, you would be "guaranteed" a payoff of 35 units every roll! Wow! You "win" every time! Unfortunately it would cost you 37 units per roll to achieve that 35 unit win. And you would have achieved absolutely nothing. Is that what you meant? Probably not. I'm exaggerating because you haven't clearly stated what you mean by "turning the odds in your favor." Instead, you keep sending me to the internet. In any case... Craps is the same way. There are moments when you have an "edge" in a simplistic sense. Like when you've bet the Don't against a shooter that just rolled a 4 as his point. At this point you are a favorite to win that particular hand, simply because there are many more ways of that shooter rolling a 7 before rolling a 4. However you had to "buck" the bad odds of him rolling a 7 or 11 just to get to that point, and those odds must be taken into consideration. You can't just ignore them and proudly proclaim to "have an edge." At least not if you want anyone to take you seriously. I don't claim to have the mountains of experience at these games that you do, but as long as you're going to argue from authority, here's some people whom I do consider to be experts on the subject, and it's interesting to read what they've had to say. “Nevertheless, in the long run, craps is not a beatable casino game. No matter what you may hear – and regardless of which bets you make or how you make them – if you play craps long enough, you can expect to lose your money.” -- FUNDAMENTALS OF CRAPS by Mason Malmuth and Lynne Loomis “Remember, some craps bets are better than others, but none is profitable.” – CARO ON GAMBLING by Mike Caro “The probability of winning on the pass line bet is less than half (0.49), so in the long term the casino will always win – probably not a startling revelation to most hardened crap shooters!” – CHANCE RULES: AN INFORMAL GUIDE TO PROBABILITY, RISK, AND STATISTICS by Brian S. Everitt “Unfortunately, the casino variety of this game is unbeatable.” – GETTING THE BEST OF IT by David Sklansky “It is known that if the game of craps is played often enough these average results of – 1.41% and - 1.36% will be virtually exactly realized by the “pass” and “don’t pass” bettors. Think of the negative sign as a warning that continuing to play the game will be hazardous to your wealth; you will inexorably drift deeper into debt with only occasional spasmodic lurches toward solvency.” – EXTRA STUFF: GAMBLING RAMBLINGS by Peter Griffin “If {someone who claims to be an experienced gambler} plays craps or some other house-percentage game, then he is a loser no matter what he may claim, no matter how knowledgeable he may be about the game, and no matter how successful he may appear to be at it.” – GAMBLING THEORY AND OTHER TOPICS by Mason Malmuth “Despite the great popularity of Craps, its participants are offered no significant strategy other than selection of the wager with the least unfavorable odds.” -- THE THEORY OF GAMBLING AND STATISTICAL LOGIC by Richard Epstein “…if you play most casino games long enough, you will lose. Craps is no exception.” – THE COMPLETE IDIOT’S GUIDE TO GAMBLING LIKE A PRO by Stanford Wong and Susan Spector Pay particular attention to Richard Epstein's quote. Epstein's quote sums up my position nicely. To paraphrase, there is no moment in a craps game, where the player has an overall advantage over the house in any meaningful way, that can be exploited for long-term profit. Jason By the way, if you'll watch Court TV tonight at 10:30 EST/PST, you can see me and Paul Wilson working a craps table for profit via illegal means. However, we are not ex-casino managers, so take whatever we say with a grain of salt.
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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Tom Wolf Special user Harrison, Ohio 580 Posts |
Too all that patiently went through all the comments about "rurning the odds in your favor", I apoligize.
This is a magic forum and I should have stayed with the topic. For Jason,, Do a search on "the world's greatest winning systems" and look at all that comes up. You can purchase Leo Guild's book "The World's Greatest Winning Systems" also. This books shows you how to do what I have been trying to say all along. Even though the odds will be in your favor each time, in the long run You Will Not Win. In the short time, you should. Tom Wolf
The magic director and performer at the Rincon Gaucho supper club in Mexico City,
We opened the first and only close-up room for magic in Mexico with Wolf Ruvinskis. have several new coin vanishes and routines to share shortly just as soon as I can find someone to film them for me. Now living in Harrison, Ohio |
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