How's it going guys,

I was wondering if any of you use a Chop Cup or 3-Cup and Balls/Combo Cup routine table hopping?

I want to do something along this nature but my biggest concern is putting the cups on their table?

Also, I'm wondering what you guys use as final loads?

-q

I saw a guy use rubber eyeballs once...

Yay a reply!

and cool.

Were the cups put on the table?

I cannot imagine a 3-cup routine at a table:

It takes up too much room. If it's good it will take up too much time. How are you going to close a 3-cup routine when the dinner arrives?

I think a one-cup routine is perfect, why not a chop cup.

In that case, I cannot stand most chop cup patter I've seen. Or, cup and ball patter for that matter.

An exception is John Bannon's "Chop 2", spoken "chop squared" (or is it chop chop)?

Anyway, his patter is great, it just one cup.
The routine makes sense, etc.

I think that his routine is an eye-opener as far as proper chop cup theory goes.

Several routines I've read really don't make sense to me. For instance, you should not take a little red ball put it in your pocket, show both hands empty and then viola, there it is under the cup. You also should not have to lift up a chop cup just to re-set it back down as in those "I can make it appear anywhere" versions.

When I started to read the patter for the effect, I said to myself, "Finally something I can use. What a relief."

I'm not saying I won't change things here or there but the basic idea and the thought behind it are superb and well thought out.

He also has a 3 cup routine that is also wonderful in terms of patter, and construction but don't use tablehopping.

How can you not want to use patter that starts something like this. "Here's a mystery with 3 cups and a little red fuzzball. I found it in the clothes dryer. It used to be socks."


Both effects are found in his book Impossibilia and though I loathe the following phrase I'll say it anyway because this time it really is true...

I think both effects are worth the price of the book.

On another note (and what would a post of mine be without another note) I also like Mark Jenest's Jiggernaut, which he presents as a pocket sobriety test using an olive and a "jigger" from a bar. Again, it makes sense, it's fun, and it's unique. You can find this effect on his video "Miracles While You Wait". It's an effect You Will Do!

Don't you hate when people tell you what "You Will Do?"

Notice I'm not saying this trick is worth the price of the video (even though it is) because once in a post is far too much for that phrase.

Frank

"because once in a post is far too much for that phrase. "

lol

Thanks for the input, I as well hate the idea of oh look for the umptenth time I'm putting the ball somewhere and look its back under the cup!

Jiggernaut seems phat I'll pickup that video thanks bro. You've earned..

One pat on the back! *WHOMP*

It's gotta be,
-q

Well Frank beat me to it, as I was going to recommend Jiggernaut. This routine has never let me down in the restaurant. It has always been well received. And it is just about the right length for that type of routine.

Jennest's "Miracles While You Wait" video is excellent, not only for Jiggernaut, but also for a couple of other routines on the video. I use Short Hop in the restaurant as well and have used Billusion and Chap Trick in the past. Short Hop is an excellent little hopping half routine.

If you are going to assemble Jiggnaut yourself, here are a few tips. Find a jigger that is tall and thin versus short and fat. The taller ones hold a bigger final load (corks). Excellent looking fake olives can be made from the fake soft plastic grapes you can find at any craft store (i.e. Jo Ann's Fabrics or Michael's).

Just cut a hole in the top and insert a piece of red sponge ball and voilá, you've got an olive. Also, if you lightly coat the inside of the jigger with talc every once in a while, the olives and corks will be less likely to stick.

The other great advantage to Jiggernaut is that the jigger takes up very little pocket room and resets the moment you put everything back in your pocket.

Can you tell I like this routine a lot!?!

I recently saw a clip of Carl Andrews two cup restaurant cups and balls routine and it looked very good as well. If you want to do a more standard cups and balls routine, this would definitely be worth looking into, as is just about anything Carl puts out.

Another option is the James Riser/Dennis Loomis Micro Chop Cup. The cups look fabulous and the routine is done completely in the hands so there are no worries about having to use the table. (I have never had a problem using the table, opinions may vary, take it for what it's worth)

What dealer did you get Miracles While You wait from?

Hey Kaliix,
I like your idea for making an olive. I'll have to experiment.

but where would any of us magicians ever find some red sponge to stuff in the hole?

Look at the Riser set. It's full of surprises and comes with a great routine. Everything happens in your hand, so there are no table worries. Its like the one I use only 10 times better.

Hello all,
I just discovered this thread and as the topic of cups and balls and chop cups is near and dear to my heart, I'll share my reactions to what some of you have said.

As some of you may recall, I published my Cups and Balls routine many years ago. All remaining copies are now at L & L Publishing and it remains in their catalog. However, early on I found that I just didn't have the venues where I could do "sit down" magic. The Magic Castle, sure... magic conventions, sure... but not often in the real world. At least, not for me.

And so, I started to think about a one-cup routine, which led to the Chop Cup and practicality led to using a small one. Less bulk in the pocket. At first I used the cup on the table, the way I'd always seen it done. But then I had a strolling engagement where tables were few and far between.

Out of necessity, the idea of using the Chop Cup totally in the hands was born. (Perhaps others had thought of it before me, but it was a new idea to me.) Immediately I began to discover the other advantages. The ball does not talk when you release it onto your fingers. And, you always know whether it released or not because you can feel it.

But there's one more, fairly subtle, reason, which addresses what fstarsinic mentions in one of his posts. He's absolutely right, IMHO, one should not have to lift the cup up and set it down for no apparent reason just to release the ball. It's downright suspicious and may lead your audience to the solution. And, if the cup is sitting on the table, it's hard to come up with that reason. BUT, if the cup is sitting on your hand, all you need to do is to create a "reason" for using that hand.

Then the other hand can lift the cup, temporarily, and when the cup is replaced, the release can occur. There are many such "reasons." Just the process of making a gesture as you are speaking is all it takes. I often "adjust" my glasses while speaking and the hand holding the cup is freed up for this by lifting the cup from above with the other hand. This also suggests that the cup is empty without making it an issue.

And so, my routine with the tiny Chop Cup was begun. Years ago a very small Chop Cup was on the market, but it had some disadvantages. Nevertheless, I used it for many years before the idea of combining the Chop Cup routine with the vanishing glass of liquid or "Squash" was born.

And so now I had a finale for my routine. I was just thrilled when James Riser asked me if I would work with him on the design of a very small Chop Cup which we would bring to the world of magic with my routine as the "instruction book." At last I would have a very tiny Chop Cup I could be proud of.

His designs were, indeed, everything I could hope for, and I'm thrilled that many others have agreed with me about the quality of his craftsmanship. Thanks to Kaliis and to KingStarDog for their positive comments in this thread about Jim's Cups and my routine.

Finally, I just want to agree with what fstarsinic said about John Bannon's refreshing patter and presentation. Too often, magicians don't think enough about what they are going to say while doing the tricks they practice in total silence. And when they get in front of an audience, what come out are not only non-sensical, but also just plain dull.

I'm thinking about creating an area on my Website devoted to novel ideas and uses for Chop Cups generally, and the little Loomis/Riser Micro chop specifically. If any of you have any thoughts to share, I'd love to hear from you.

Feel free to drop by my site, and don't feel obligated to buy anything.

Has anyone seen or used the Paul Wilson Chop Cup routine from his restaurant DVD ? Any opinions ?

Yes, I’ve seen it. It’s not bad. I like it. It’s quick. It’s fun. You might try to find a bargain copy of VHS instead of DVD if you want to save money.

I think the cup he uses is nice looking. it's a wide mouth Don Alan Cup. I found one that looks like it from Ickle Pickle and bought it just for the look.

Anyway, the Wilson routine is worth looking at. It’s not amazing but better than average, and it added some things to my list of Chop Cup moves. He uses an easy technique for his False Transfer instead of a French Drop.

Dennis Loomis,

Your idea sounds cool but, I dislike the idea of putting it in your hand because I feel a major strength of the chop cup is that you are putting the ball away or disappearing it or performing some miracle under a cup that is away from you. Psychologically it sends the message:

Nothing can change what is under the cup with out my magic.

But if it's in your hands, people think it's some faster then the eye thing. The cup away from you makes it seem more magicical, at least to me. (You sort of mentioned this)

However, micro cups are something you bring up I like.

Regarding the Paul Wilson Chop Cup routine what’s the name of the video/DVD?

The video is called "The Restaurant Act"

It's an entire table-hopping act consisiting of,

Silk and TT
Card-to-Wallet
the Long Card
Chop Cup

seems like one other thing like sponge balls or something.

To "q"

We all see things differently, and that's good. But, I beg to differ with you. I feel it's stronger to do the effect in your hand. Incidently, Gene Anderson not only agrees with me, but it's his major reason for liking the Micro Chop Routine.

However, the practical advantages are obvious: If you plan to do the Chop Cup routine on a table, you have to be performing in situations where you have a table. If not, you can't do it. And, you also have to carry a close up pad. (The ball falling to the table "talks" if you don't.)

There are performers who always work at tables and always use a pad. But I just don't happen to be one of them. Most of my close up work is strolling where there are often no tables. And, even when tables are present, clearing away space to put down a pad is not always an option. So, even when I'm entertaining at tables (Banquets) I perform standing and don't carry a pad.

Most lay people assume that much close up magic depends on speed. The old saying that the hand is quicker than the eye is really not true, but lay people don't know that. I don't know how we can change that, but we can at least try to be slow and clear in our movements.
Dennis Loomis
http://www.mindspring.com/~deloomis/dai.html

Dennis,
I tried the mega final load in my micro cup and its a deadly miracle. Of course my critic (wife) gets all of the miracles first.
It completly blew her away since she has watched me practice with the micro cup on many occasions. She spent at least 10 minutes trying to figure out how a ball bigger than the cup could come out of the inside of it. The more she tried the madder she got.

In my routine, I use a chop cup I made from a Coca Cola paper cup and some Wal Mart Mags.

I HATE magicstore looking cups. For balls, I use one gimmicked and one ungimmicked rubber lemmons which look very real.

My final load is one tiny crocheted ball.

I'm just wierd that way.

I have worked out a two cup routine, which can easily be performed in restaurants or while doing table hopping. I agree that three cups take too much space, but most tables are big enough to place two cups on them. I also use three final loads: A sponge ball, a rubber ball and a knot made out of three ropes. When the sponge ball appears, people always think that this is easy to do because you can make it very small. while they are telling me this I make the rubber ball appear, so they know it does not depend on the size. The knot made out of blue rope is my suprise in the end, and it offers some possibilities for your patter.

Maxx

To Maxx,
Do you unknot the rope(s) knot and do some rope magic? Seems logical.
Dennis Loomis
http://www.mindspring.com/~deloomis/dai.html

May I suggest Skinner's "Rub-a-dub-dub" as a 3-cups routine for the sophisticated table hopper? You can find it in Genii, November 2000 issue. You can use both for children and adults. It's great!
Regards