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Greg Arce
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Jonathan, that is so true. It's almost a sick thought that I feel some of these parents are using their children as bait to be able to cash in on the Michael Jackson urges. It's weird.
And I'm sure many will say the same thing: if this had been just some random individual, from some random neighborhood, and dressed, acted, and looked like Jackson, do you think that the verdict would have been the same? I think not.
The rich and the famous get some leeway when it comes to their indiscretions. And that's not good.

Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
Chessmann
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Quote:
On 2005-06-14 00:18, Chessmann wrote:
Jackson took his legal team to Chuck E. Cheese to celebrate after the verdict!


So stole that from Leno! (Still funny though)
[/quote]

Actually, Leno must have stolen it from somewhere else - I heard it on a local radio station about 15 minutes after the verdict. But you're right - it's a good one.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2005-06-14 01:09, johnnymystic wrote:
I have 8 children...and I'm a grandfather, Jacksons sexual problems are such that I would never in my right mind EVER let any of my kids 'Spend the night' with M. Jackson. I myself have seen how sexual predators hunt their prey. I've lived in some shady neighborhoods and have seen families within my own neighborhood undergo these very same hardships...it is plain out wrong.

Jackson was found not guilty simply because he IS Michael Jackson.

Do you really think the the members of the jury would let their kids spend the night at Jacko's house? C'mon!!??

johnny


I honestly thought he'd be found guilty no matter what the evidence because he was Michael Jackson.
"All the world's a stage, but the play is badly cast!" - Oscar Wilde
Vandy Grift
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[quote]On 2005-06-14 09:36, mandrake01 wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-06-14 01:09, johnnymystic wrote:

I honestly thought he'd be found guilty no matter what the evidence because he was Michael Jackson.



That seems odd, considering nearly every athlete or celebrity that is charged with a serious crime is either exonoreted or has their punishment reduced to laughable levels. Other than Mike Tyson can you think of some major celebs that have gone to jail? I can provide a list of celebs and athletes accused of violent crimes, sexual crimes and domestic abuse a mile long. They never get any serious sentences. There is very little that you can't get away with if you are a high level(or even medium level) celeb or athlete.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Steve Dela
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Is the American Legal system that bent? do you really think they would let somone off if they have done what is in my opinion the worlds worst crime?

I think if he was found innocent then this is likely to be the case? then again I have no experience of the american legal system.

Also, the news is banging on about how he is bankrupt etc. How is he paying his staff and team of legal people?

These are question that none of us can answer.

I must admit that the legal systems in general are very rubish... the UK has some naff guidlines and laws that make no sense.
As an example, if you hit someone in your car with no insurance, you can still keep your car.
But...if you are fishing and catch a fish that is smaller than law allows, you have your boat taken off you! seriously go figure...but in truth no-one will really know what is going on with Mike except himself.

Has he been given a polygraph?

In Magic
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wulfiesmith
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Michael goes free ... fantastic news!!!!

just because Michael "is different" and has a life-style no-one can understand, does NOT mean he is guilty...

I do not believe he has done what people have said he has ... he is a victim of GREED ... we are now in a blame society ... I NEVER thought the UK would become like the USA ... look at me wrong, and I'll sue!! ... if you have money, I am sure I can thing of something!! ...

Come on Michael ... bounce back!! ...

kindest regards - wulfie smith
johnnymystic
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I've had the wonderful experience of having to go in front of a judge for numerous reasons, hehehe.

While awaiting my turn I had the pleasure of seeing other peoples cases. One I remember most was a a guy with a 3rd grade education, he molested a 12 year old girl. All he got was probation and counseling...amzingly enough all he could afford was a court appointed attorney.

Other peoples offences seemed much less and some even got hard time for a fist fight at the local bar. Go figure.

Is our legal system knee deep in B.S.?

johnny
I drink cheap tequila and vomit
<BR>I cannot eat hot wings...acid reflux
<BR>I never inhale Smile
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Vandy Grift
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Quote:
On 2005-06-14 14:50, wulfiesmith wrote:

he is a victim of GREED



I agree, this family should have just taken a large cash settlement, like all the other families of kids that Jackson played around with. They got greedy and tried to have Jackson punished. The fools, when you get greedy for justice you get what you get.

Oh that's right, they couldn't take a cash settlement because California actually had to change State Law to prevent Jackson from paying off all the people that brought complaint against him. Oh well, they get what they get. People are still lining up to have their children hop in bed with Mike so whats the big deal? He's probably planning a giant sleep over with sippie cups full of "jesus juice" and the largest group of cancer-stricken kiddies west of the Mississippi.

Vandy
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
irossall
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I agree with you wulfie smith, Jackson is not Guilty.
Just because Jackson was in possesion of child porn, kids underwear, his fingerprints on the same page of an adult porno magazine along with a kids prints, a "secret" room, an alarm system to give warning whenever someone approaches his bedroom, gives "Jesus Juice" (alcohol) to kids and sleeps with kids does not mean he is guilty of any wrongdoing.
Who cares about his lifestyle or his being weird? That is not what he went to court over. He went to court because of accusations about taking liberty with minor's.
Don't forget the millions he paid out to another kid who made the same accusations a while back. If he was so innocent then, he should not have paid the money but by doing so it sure makes him look guilty to me (at least at that time).
If I was inocent of that accusation I would have paid much more to clear my name in a court of law.
Just my whacko opinion.
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Chessmann
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Regarding the question re: the American legal system. It is not perfect, of course, if you were to stack it up vs all the other countries in the world I would bet that it comes out looking pretty good.

Remember that judges are people. They will have different feelings on who should get hard time and who should not, who should get this and who should get that, etc...

Many times people will question why someone got off, but someone who did a seemingly lesser offense got time. They don't see that (for example) the one who got time was the one with a past record and the one who didn't committed their first offense. Lots of things like this enter into the pot.

Mark
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hkwiles
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Chessman.

In the UK the Jury aren't allowed to know of any previous convictions nor can they go home and watch the news of whats going on, neither can they discuss how they arrived at their decision.
I know of another senior American who told a lie..but that didn't stop the folks
giving him a second chance LoL

Howard
Scott Cram
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OK, there are a couple of things wrong at the Flash intro to Michael Jackson's official site:

1. "Innocent"?!? No, Michael, you were "Not Guilty". There is a distinct legal difference. Only you and others involved can ever know whether you're truly innocent.

2. Maybe posting a song on your site in which a child sings with you isn't the best way to put a pedophilia case behind you.

3. No, Michael. You being found not guilty is NOT A DAY IN HISTORY EQUIVALENT TO EITHER NELSON MANDELA'S RELEASE, MARTIN LUTHER KING'S BIRTHDAY OR THE FALL OF THE BERLIN WALL. (See Yahoo for more details.)


Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go toss my cookies after watching that intro.
Patrick Differ
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Hee! Hee! Hee!

Thanks for saying that, Scott. Huge difference between innocent-not guilty, beating the legal system-fall of the Berlin wall, etc. I always liked the resolution "not proven" myself. I believe it is old Scottish.

Proven or not, his actions were entirely inappropriate.
Will you walk into my parlour? said the Spider to the Fly,
Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy;
The way into my parlour is up a winding stair,
And I've a many curious things to show when you are there.

Oh no, no, said the little Fly, to ask me is in vain,
For who goes up your winding stair
-can ne'er come down again.
JoeJoe
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Yes, thank you very mcuh Scott - only on very rare occassions will the US court systems proclaim someone "innocent". The only case I can think of is "The Fugative", where his son's passionate pleas convinced the judge that in light on the new DNA evidence that the courts owe'd him a declaration of innocence.

"Not Guilty" does not mean "innocnet" in our courts - in our courts, a guilty verdict requires that the case is proved "beyond reasonable doubt". Even in cases where someone is caught red-handed, a good lawyer can create reasonable doubt. The only reason our legal system works at all is because people can't afford lawyers, thus they plea guilty to lesser charges.

Sadly, I can't think of a better way to do it ... before our system, innocent people were falsly accused. Thus, the founding fathers setup this system to prevent that from happening.

JoeJoe
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Lee Darrow
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Like I said, the Prosecution failed to prove "beyond a REASONABLE DOUBT" which is the standard in a criminal case, the allegations against Jackson. None of us were in the courtroom and none of us heard the evidence.

That's one of the problems with a case like this - all of the pundits make all sorts of analyses based on second-hand reports from people who are in the courtroom or who are in and out of the courtroom, but who are not privy to all of the information that the jury is, or have MORE information that the jury does. Remember, during several arguments over evidence and testimony, the jury was removed from the courtroom so that they would not be prejudiced.

The issue here is reasonable doubt. Period. The jury felt, unanimously, that the prosecution did not make that standard and they were in a much better place to know whether the prosecution did that or not than any of us are.

I've seen what can happen in a case of false accusation and, believe me, the reasonable doubt standard is for the protection of everyone, especially as such accusations seem to be becoming more and more common in things like bitter divorces these days.

And that's a crying shame for the real victims because every false accusation that gets made, the possibility exits that either an innocent man will go to jail and have to live with the stigma of being labelled a child molester for the rest of his life OR the credibility of the next claim, a real claim, will be severely diluted.

Regardless of what you might think of Jacko's case, it did nothing to forward the cause of the victims of child molestation, nationally, that seems pretty certain from here.

Lee Darrow, C.H.
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johnnymystic
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Too right you are Lee Darrow...too right you are...

johnny
I drink cheap tequila and vomit
<BR>I cannot eat hot wings...acid reflux
<BR>I never inhale Smile
<BR>I can put a field dress on a deer
Brian Proctor
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The court couldn't find him guilty. He can move on with his life. But I still don't trust him. I am tired of hearing about his garbage life in the media. Just get him off the news! I can't stand the guy!
Greg Arce
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Even though this is a bit off topic it really isn't: If you had to say a statistical average of what you believed was the average amount of times that the justice system got it right what would you say? I mean, do you think that on average the law finds the guilty person guilty and the innocent one innocent 50% of the time? 60%? 10%? Or whatever you think is the right percentage. I'm just curious as to what people think on this subject.
After a lot of people answer I'll throw in one more question that deals with this unscientific poll.
Thanks.

Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
ed rhodes
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[quote]On 2005-06-14 09:42, Vandy Grift wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-06-14 09:36, mandrake01 wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-06-14 01:09, johnnymystic wrote:

I honestly thought he'd be found guilty no matter what the evidence because he was Michael Jackson.



That seems odd, considering nearly every athlete or celebrity that is charged with a serious crime is either exonoreted or has their punishment reduced to laughable levels. Other than Mike Tyson can you think of some major celebs that have gone to jail? I can provide a list of celebs and athletes accused of violent crimes, sexual crimes and domestic abuse a mile long. They never get any serious sentences. There is very little that you can't get away with if you are a high level(or even medium level) celeb or athlete.


My thought was that everybody "knew" Jackson had to be guilty because they all see him as being so weird. In fact, the defense was able to show the preditory history of the accusers and the prosecution wasn't able to prove it's case.
"All the world's a stage, but the play is badly cast!" - Oscar Wilde
evanthx
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For celebs who went to jail...Rob Lowe, Martha Stewart, Robert Downey Jr, Sean Penn, Christian Slater come to mind...just because a few high-profile cases were found innocent doesn't mean every case is both high-profile and innocent.

Personally the accusers just weren't believable. I really don't know if I'd trust my kid-to-be (wife is pregnant!) anywhere near the guy...but when a scumbag accuses a sleazeball it's really hard to believe anyone.
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