The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » All tied up! » » Need Help with Kellar Rope Tie Technique (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

John Long
View Profile
Inner circle
New Jersey
2723 Posts

Profile of John Long
I learned this from Daryl's rope DVDs, but have problems when someone ties it very tight. In this case, I can do the "untwist" motion, but don't have enough slack to get it off my wrist!(but I had enough slack to just untie it - but that's not what I want to do) Am I doing something wrong? It feels like the loop between my hands is twisted in a figure 8, which could explain the lack of slack, but not having eyes behind my head, its hard to be sure what is going on.

My thoughts are
1. I'm twisting my hands the wrong direction
2. the rope is (possibly) getting twisted because my hand is not rotating freely in the rope, and is causing a twist in the ropes
3. I'm using nylon rope instead of cotton.
4. The spectator is doing something unexpected with the rope
5. I'm a klutz

Your thoughts are appreciated!
John
Breathtaking Magic;
Not Breath Taking
FLIM-FLAM
View Profile
New user
67 Posts

Profile of FLIM-FLAM
From the way you are explaining the problem, the tie is not being applied properly.
hugmagic
View Profile
Inner circle
7376 Posts

Profile of hugmagic
You need to use a stiffer rope. Think of the rope used in stage curtin travelers. It is impossible to knot tight and it holds open in position.

Gosh knows I watched Blackstone do it more than once as part of the committee.

Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
Ms. Morgan
View Profile
Veteran user
The Garden State
399 Posts

Profile of Ms. Morgan
John,
Richard is right, the rope is very important. You need rope that will not "bite" into it's self when tied.
It could also be that you have small wrist. I tend to avoid the Keller tie for just this reason. even done tied right the loop I'm often left with is just to small to get my hand thru.
Although I doubt your wrist are that small, but still....

Morgan
World Magic Award's "Escape Artist of the Year"
www.EscapeChick.com
www.illusionbiz.com
www.WackyDracky.com
Kondini
View Profile
Inner circle
3612 Posts

Profile of Kondini
Found Sash Cord to work best for me,but if it`s twisted between the wrists its been applied wrongly.
John Long
View Profile
Inner circle
New Jersey
2723 Posts

Profile of John Long
All

Thanks for your help, I will experiment with them, but read below!

None the less, I reviewed the Daryl vidio to ensure that I was setting it up correctly, and moving my hands in the right direction. Confident that I now know which way to move my hands, I went back to my co-worker for a second round - I couldn't get out! I could do the initial untwisting, but there was not enough slack to remove my wrist. Argh!...

Feeling the rope that was inbetween my hands again showed some twisting..
With his help, I got the partially tied mess out front, and then he told me what he did!! While my hands were behind my back, he yanked hard on the rope that was not drapped over my right hand, and caused the initial overhand know to rotate around so that the crossed sections of that knot were now on the underside of my wrist(instead of where it started - on the top side). This was the twisted sections of rope that I was feeling between my two hands after the untwisting move, and apparently causes the necessary slack to be lost!

By pressing my hands together, harder, he was less able to get that knot to rotate around my writst. Does anyone have a better thought? Seems like one should be aware of this potential problem!

Thanks
John
Breathtaking Magic;
Not Breath Taking
Ms. Morgan
View Profile
Veteran user
The Garden State
399 Posts

Profile of Ms. Morgan
John,
Find yourself a copy of the booklet "33 rope ties and chain releases" by Burling Hull. I think you'll find that his method of the Kellar tie differs a bit from the one you seem to be working with. There has always been some difference of opinion as to the true way Kellar handled the rope. Because of this there are atleast 2 "Kellar" ties that I know of...3 if you count the improved tie.
The improved Kellar tie on page 10 of this book. I think you will find it very helpful and the book has some other great stuff. Check Ebay, they turn up often.

Ms.M
World Magic Award's "Escape Artist of the Year"
www.EscapeChick.com
www.illusionbiz.com
www.WackyDracky.com
Mark Tripp
View Profile
Regular user
148 Posts

Profile of Mark Tripp
I suggest the method in Tarbell (the gysel tie) is easier and less prone to spectator problems.
John Long
View Profile
Inner circle
New Jersey
2723 Posts

Profile of John Long
Sciencemagician: I could not find any rope ties by Kellar or by the namd of gysel tie in my e-book version of Tarbell. Did you spell it correctly? or what is the name of the trick itself, so I can do a search for it.

MsM: I may get a copy of Hull's booklet.


Thanks
John
Breathtaking Magic;
Not Breath Taking
The Donster
View Profile
Inner circle
4817 Posts

Profile of The Donster
For Tarbell Try Volume 6 might want to try looking in the normal books.
dylan1961
View Profile
New user
65 Posts

Profile of dylan1961
None of the methods compares to the one Joe Fox uses. It was written up in a recent Genii magazine in which Mark Cannon of Cannon's Great Escapes appeared on the cover.
I've seen Joe do this and he has shown me several times, and each time it is simply amazing. Try to find a copy, I'm sure you'll use it!
The Donster
View Profile
Inner circle
4817 Posts

Profile of The Donster
Dylan1961 is it Genii or MUM magazine that Mark Cannon was in ?

M.U.M. Magazine Cover, February Issue Feb 1 I beleive it should be the year of 2005.
Mark Tripp
View Profile
Regular user
148 Posts

Profile of Mark Tripp
Vol 6, Spirit ties.

Gysel is first, but the Keller follows it with a better way than "pinching".
The Donster
View Profile
Inner circle
4817 Posts

Profile of The Donster
Gysel is Lesson #80 page # 390 in Tarbells Vol. 6
John Long
View Profile
Inner circle
New Jersey
2723 Posts

Profile of John Long
Donster: yes, there are "issues" with the ebook. The "lessons" in the ebook don't seem to match up with what I found listed in http://magicref.tripod.com/books.htm, and it doesn't seem to have any of vol 6! argh! I might have gone with individual books purchase if I was aware of such discrepancies. I've just emailed Lybrary for help, but a closer look at his site indicates that the ebook has up to lesson 60, but if I can't correlate those lesson #'s with the physical books, its impossible to know what you are getting. If I can figure out the relationship between the e-book and the missing physical books, I can make those purchases.

dyland: How can I get access to past issues of Genii?
or how do I get MUM?
Breathtaking Magic;
Not Breath Taking
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » All tied up! » » Need Help with Kellar Rope Tie Technique (0 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.18 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL