I believe he's talking about the last trick in Dear Mr. Fantasy, "The Poker of Poker", not "Timely Departure" from Smoke & Mirrors.

KedCrenshaw wrote:


I don't like to assume, and your postings haven't clarified things much. Pray tell, what is a so-called "self-working" effect?

KidCrenshaw,

Don't misunderstand me; I won't wander off into a philosophical discussion of 'self-working' effects.

Let me clarify my intentions. I don't feel any need to argue about what constitutes a 'self-working' effect. I just want to understand what criteria you're using to call a trick 'self-working.' Based on the criteria that you choose, I'd be happy to share which effects I use in my professional performances that meet your criteria.

I know a trick called "Last Two Cards Match" and it is a great self working trick!

I have always kept a few self-working effects in my arsenal. They are relatively unknown and I use them for the rare ocassion when there is somebody in the audience who is more impressed about sharing his knowledge about magic to everybody else. When one of the chowderheads jumps in, I just switch to a few self-working effects that play very strong until he is discredited.

I then move back to sleights. At that point he has no credibility. You need to find the effects that work for you and your style, but a good start is "Scarne on Card Tricks". There are a bunch of great effects in it from some of the Masters (Dai Vernon, Scarne, Carlyle, among others).

Ok, if it's that much of a problem, don't bother. My goodness, can you simply answer the friggin' question or not? You know what I mean, let's not kid anyone! If you've not heard of a self-working effect, then I am by no means the person to educate on card magic.

Mr. Steele, that is great advice, and I like how you use some of the "simplest" effects to shut someone up, and then moveback into the sleights. Very good thinking, thank you.

P.S. If it's that much of a task to understand what I mean, then I guess don't bother responding. It's purdy simpul.

The Power of Poker is not only "self working" but the dealing can actually all be done by the spectator if you wish. I know way too many "Ten Card Poker" deals. This effect outdoes them all and is a pleasure to perform.

[quote]On 2005-06-21 03:00, Frank Starsini wrote:
The last trick in the bannon book is also self working but the spectator has such free rein during the effect that I am considering it for some occasions and I just hate self working tricks and would never perform one at a paid venue.

As soon as someone pulls out a packet trick, a spelling trick, a counting trick, a piles trick, I puke.
---------------------------------------------------------------- unquote
Frank, I saw this performed for myself and a couple of fellow magicians at the local magic shop recently and it had us badly fooled. You may want to rethink this one and try it out a couple of times. It was "reworked" as a full deck routine with the cuts/shuffles and moves that gave it all the fairness of a miracle. After seeing this one performed and in the hands of a "seasoned worker", this one is deffinately a keeper. I did show it to a couple of poker guys and they were badly fooled. Give a couple of trys and with all the poker madness that is going on right now, it IS a good trick.

Snidini

Frank: is your reluctance to use a self-worker at a paid gig a matter of pride, or the fact that you haven't found one good enough to get paid for doing? If the former, fair enough: I can understand someone not wanting to do something so easy AND be paid for it. If the latter, can I suggest you look again at Gemini Twins (or its countless variations - Rainbow Deck is one IIRC) or Pre-Deck-Ability (no sleights so technically self-working, but dead hard to present well) or Paul Harris's Overkill (same comments)?

Ross

Snidine - Have you seen "Impossible" (Ammar's ETMCM)? It's a killer "spelling" trick.

That should be "Will The cards Match", the Larry Becker presentation for a Howard Adams principle. Fortunately your phrase still works! It is a good self worker and there are some nice presentations for it.

I often close on a self worker in my restaurant magic. After doing some nifty card stuff with a full deck, I downsize to four cards and finally to just one card, using David Britland's "Parallax". I have some reasonably amusing patter and it seems impossible. As usual, some of the old stuff is some of better stuff. I must be in a particularly good mood to be tipping this.

Paul.

I would second Scarne on Card Tricks. All require no sleights, some setups. Many different and little used ideas.

"Scarne on Card Tricks" is like a secret weapon. The tricks in there were, for the most part, originally done differently. Scarne took the best of the material he'd seen from people like Vernon and Carlyle and others, then re-worked the tricks to remove the slieghts and make them self-working. I have had great fun trying to re-construct them, putting the slieghts BACK IN! Regardless, they are great as-is.

The other book that is quite good is Paul Clive's "Card Tricks Without Skill". It is not as dreck-free as the Scarne book, but the gems that ARE in there are so worth it that I can easily overlook the filler. There is a great E.G.Brown spelling trick in there. In fact, there are several versions of it. You have to dig to find it, and sort thru the different versions, but if you work on it you'll have a great trick. In fact, in "Revelations" Persi mentions it as one of a trio of tricks he performs as a set. By adding ONE slieght you can turn this trick into a real miracle!

Also, in the Clive book, there is a trick by Charlie Miller and Jack McMillen that Ron Bauer re-worked and renamed "The Luck of The Draw". It was published in John Luka's column for the "New Tops" magazine, and later in his book by L&L, L.I.N.T., which is one of the most overlooked books in magic, packed full of great working material...

I often do a Vernon miracle called "Emotional Reaction", from the first trilogy. And Harry Lorayne's "Closeup Card Magic" has "The Lazy Man's Card Trick", another terrific self-worker...

Well, that's a pretty good lineup of self-working magic that I have been doing for going on thirty-five years. I still use all of them today, and I fool most people, magic or otherwise, with all of it. In fact, I don't know why I'm telling you guys this stuff, it is too good to give up...

Best, PSC

Hi Jim.
you quote...(Snidine - Have you seen "Impossible" (Ammar's ETMCM)? It's a killer "spelling" trick.)

Yes I have and that is another that is often overlooked. Another one is "Further Than That" which is also on the ETMCM series. This is a great thread and for the folks who want some real great card stuff without busting their knuckles, it's out there. Paul, you are right about the "Scarne on Card Tricks". Some of the best stuff out there on a simpler level.

Snidini

Sal Piacente has a card routine called the "4-5-6-Packet Trick" that's as strong as any trick involving sleights I've ever seen. It's on Vol. 2 of his DVD set. And although Sal has great skills with cards, he says there's nothing in his repetoire that's stronger. I've done it, and it seems like true mindreading.

G

Timely Departure by John Bannon from his S&M book.

Wonderful routine with lots of audience involvment.
Abosulute stunner and entirely self working.

Well almost entirely self working.

good question Ross.
I'm not exactly sure BUT I know that I don't perform effects that do not fascinate me to some degree.
There must be something about the effect that I find intreguing. Either method, slight, misdirection application, a particular shuffle, etc.

Overkill, jc super closer, and many other great tricks I just can't get myself to even practice.
Obviously, even self-working tricks need to be practiced for the timing aspect or whatever.

With Power of Poker, I'm a bit intregued about what to say to the spectators to cover the weaknesses of the effect. The fact that it's not entirely delt back and forth. Also the selection of the last card, which if not done correctly will ruin the outcome.

It could also be that I'm lazy as many descent self-workers need a setup and often a table.
It could also be that non self wroking effects tend to be quicker and very strong and that combination is what I really find good for my style.

I really don't know. just some thoughts.

As Frank states, self-working tricks also need to be practiced!!! Case in point -- Al Baker's "Twin Souls" seems deceptively easy to do, until you actually do it with people who don't know how to follow directions: audience management is key! Also, you have at least three things to memorize while pattering and managing your audience. So, Frank, while there are no sleights here, there is some work and some concentration involved. And Twin Souls usually gets me more comments than a lot of my other sleightier effects.

I've never found sleights to be the most difficult aspect of presenting an effect.

My favorites: The Three Pile Trick by C.W. Jones in Greater Magic, A Psychological Discovery by S. Leo. Horowitz (Greater Magic), Overcast by Trini Montes and though I don't use it often (too long) is Timely Departure by John Bannon.

I use a Mental Photography (Nudist) Deck and PHIL among other things in my professional gigs. These totally self-working tricks KILL laymen. At least, that's what my repeat bookings tell me!