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Tyler_Magician Special user 509 Posts |
I am not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but here goes. I perform close-up magic shows at all types of events. I work as a side show type, where the spectators come up to watch me perform. I am wanting to collect tips, but I don't want to look like a 'cheap' magician. Should I go with the tip can and write 'TIPS' on it? Is there a better way to go? I want to be professional about the tips, but I do perform mostly comedy magic.
Thanks, Tyler |
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Mark Tripp Regular user 148 Posts |
Just my opinion, but...
I feel you should be getting enough money from the management to leave the tips on the table for the wait staff. I know a restaurant worker who wants to get the tip before he leaves the table so the wait staff doesn't get it. The problem is the people at the table will be hard pressed to tip twice. If you get the tip before you leave (which seems tacky), they may not tip the staff. If you try to take money off of the table, the staff feels you're taking their money. It's a mess. But, if you're getting what you want from the management, LET THE STAFF KEEP THE EXTRA MONEY! I promise you, if what you're doing is getting them bigger tips, they'll love you to death, and pitch a fit if the management doesn't keep you! When I do it, I get my money plus a roll of quarters every night. The staff is sending me right to the tables, because they want the tips. They say glowing things about me to everyone, BECAUSE IT MAKES THEM MORE MONEY WHEN THEY DO! In short, get what you want from the manager, and sell him/her on the increased tips for his staff! Now, if you are not in a restarunt setting, then sell something, pitch something. But to expect your audience to make up for what the people holding the event won't pay is unacceptable to my way of thinking. |
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Tyler_Magician Special user 509 Posts |
Thanks for the advice, but I was not talking about working in restaurants. Most of my performing is for private events and civic functions.
-Tyler |
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Mark Tripp Regular user 148 Posts |
Then, get THEM to pay you, not their guests.
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Scott Grimm Regular user Chicago 141 Posts |
It is VERY unprofessional to solicet tips from private and individual bookings! If you feel you are not making enough money, charge more. If you cannot get hired unless you charge a small fee for your work, it might be time to re-evaluate your act. Collecting tips for hard work is a talented form of begging. ( Yes, that is just my opinion. But I do believe very strongly that panhandling is an insult to the art.)
Faith is at the heart of all magic.
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Tyler_Magician Special user 509 Posts |
Well, I am asking this mostly for a show coming up in about 2 weeks. It is a free show, mostly for advertisement (business cards) and tips. I am not getting payed to do the show. I am getting the gig through my magic club. They said that we could collect tips and I was just looking for a way to get them.
-Tyler |
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James Munton Inner circle Dallas, TX 1199 Posts |
Quote:
But I do believe very strongly that panhandling is an insult to the art Perhaps Tyler intends a street magic type performance, which is exactly where the "art" of magic has its origins! In this context, it is not panhandling, but busking. In London's Covent Garden, a good street entertainer can make several hundred dollars in tips in twenty minutes! They need to be good, because they have to audition to get a time slot. Tyler, if you could provide more information about the venue and event, people would be better able to offer advice on whether or not you should solicit tips. Also, I just looked at Tyler's web site and he is only 15. If I were you, Tyler, I would use this to your advantage. Before you do your final trick, tell them that you have saved your best trick for last. Tell them you call it your College Fund Trick. Then bring out a can with a big label that says "College Fund." Say to the audience, "I hope you had a good time watching my show and I hope you really enjoy the College Fund Trick. If you do enjoy this last trick, my parents will really appreciate any contribution you can make to my college fund. By the way, this can is not very big, so please fold up those twenties nice and small. And in exchange for your generous contribution, you will receive this limited edition business card which gives you VIP access to my magical services for your next special event" Then do your final trick and finish by passing around the can and handing out your business cards! Knock 'em dead! James |
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Tyler_Magician Special user 509 Posts |
Thanks James. I might actually have to use that one about the College Fund. The gig that I have booked is a side-show type show. People walk up to my table, watch a little magic, and leave. I try to keep people at myu table as long as I can, but people come and leave as they please. My table is large enough to where I can put out my business cards and have something else to collect tips.
-Tyler |
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Mark Tripp Regular user 148 Posts |
The problem young sir, is there is a very large difference between a "gig" and "street performing".
Are the other people there getting paid? Does the sponser know you are going after tips? Are they paying you to be there, but you want tips too? It is difficult to give good advise when there is much that is unclear. |
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Tyler_Magician Special user 509 Posts |
Well, like I said before, this is mostly for a show coming up in a couple weeks. Let me give a little more info about it. It is a Las Vegas night. There will probably be gambling. I am not getting payed to perform, but I am supposed to be asking for tips. There will be another magician working the room while I am performing, too.
-Tyler |
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Mark Tripp Regular user 148 Posts |
Well, there you are.
I'll bet they said you could pass out business cards, and you'd get great publicity too. General rule here Tyler, the ONLY thing you get from free shows, are more free shows. Do they get the hall for free? How about those gaming tables? Somone donating the food? If they have to pay for those things, they should have to pay for professional entertainment too. Most likely, someone said "Why pay a professional magician? Lets get someone to do it for free!" I get calls like that all the time; I learned long ago to say this... "Well, I thank you for your call. I do support major charity drives all the time. However, I simply do not have the time or ability to support them all. What I always suggest is this. My normal fee for this kind of show is "X". Because this is a charity drive, I will only charge "Y" (usually 1/2 to 2/3 of X). Now, I am sure if you were to speak to three of your members, you will have no problem with each of them giving you 1/3 of "Y", and then, think of the publicity YOU will get with a professional magician at your event!" Now, if they don't go for that, I don't go, PERIOD. For you this time, you said you'd go so you go. Two things... 1. Make *** SURE you are so good they wonder how they got you for free. The LAST thing you want is "Well he is worth what we paid him". You will have to be OUTSTANDING. 2. The college fund is the best idea so far. What I did years ago is from Patrick Page. Get a small tamboreen (sp?), and do the benson bowl routine. The finish is a final load of money and change. Turn the tam. over, put the money in, bang on the bottom and smile, they will get the message. You can use press on type, or clear lables on the front to have the words (big letters first) "Tyler Jacobs The Worlds Greatest Magician*" At the bottom, in smaller type, MUCH smaller type "*He will be when all the others drop dead!" Gets one heck of a laugh, and takes the sting off of the finish. Good Luck |
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Tyler_Magician Special user 509 Posts |
I do not do free shows for anyone. Like I said, I and 3 other magicians, 2 shifts or 2 magicians each, got the job through the magic club. They asked if anyone wanted to donate their time and perform some close-up magic. The spectators will not know that we are doing this for free. Since this show will be in my town, I will get a lot of publicity from this, too.
-Tyler |
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Mark Tripp Regular user 148 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-06-29 09:43, Tyler_Magician wrote: Tyler, you can't say "I don't do free shows for anyone" then ask us how to get tips. That sir, is a free show. Yes, I am sure you will get a lot of publicity, the problem is, it will be "here is a kid that works for free" kind. This is nothing new, it has been done to everyone at one time or another. I can show you writings by Burling Hull in the 30's and 40's that address this issue. People call the magic clubs all the time looking for magicians willing to work cheap or for free. The biggest scam EVER on the IBM was the Nabisco Oreo promotion a few years back. Even the IBM, who should have known better, fell for it. The key to being a PROFESSIONAL is to get paid what you are worth, and to be worth more than you are paid. I wish you luck with this, it will be a learning experience for you. |
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James Munton Inner circle Dallas, TX 1199 Posts |
ScienceMagician,
I agree with you. I get calls the whole time asking to do a free show for a charity event. This is my full-time job, so I NEVER do a free show. However...If after discussing the event with an organization, they cannot afford my fee, I refer them to other magicians in my area who I know charge less than me. If I feel they really cannot or will not pay anything, I refer them to my local magic club and they get people like Tyler to perform for free. I don't have a problem with this. They weren't willing to pay me anyway so I'm not losing a gig. And people like Tyler need to get their experience somewhere. I also agree with you that free shows generally lead to more free shows. Tyler, don't get your expectations up too high about getting lots of bookings, but you will get some great experience and become a better performer. Now I know a little more about the event, I would also recommend judging the atmosphere when you get there and make sure it really is the appropriate venue before whipping out your College Fund Can! I hope you report back on how it went. I look forward to reading all about it. Best, James |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Tyler, please listen to these kind an knowledgable magicians who are telling you like it is and I will second there remarks fully.
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Mark Tripp Regular user 148 Posts |
James,
I could not disagree more with the idea that if they can't afford you it is ok to send them some kids who will work for free. You see "magic" as a profession is VERY different than other entertainment fields. If you hire a bad band, you will never hire them again, but you would hire another band. Same for bad food, or bad anything.... ...yet, not for magicians. I hear EVERY year that they will NEVER hire another magician, because ... (insert horror story here). If they have a bad magician, they will not hire another one, period. They will not say, "gee we should have paid for one" they will say all magicians are bad. "Magicians" doing shows they are not ready for hurts everyone. Again, these people will PAY for the hall, food, game tables, and no, the dealers are NOT working for free... ...yet the magicians should? More to the core point here, how do you think the people attending this charity event are going to feel about "passing the hat" when the magician is done? It just seems like a bad idea to me..... |
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James Munton Inner circle Dallas, TX 1199 Posts |
ScienceMagician,
I completely understand your point of view and part of me agrees with everything you say. Especially your last point about passing the hat which I did address in my post: Quote:
Now I know a little more about the event, I would also recommend judging the atmosphere when you get there and make sure it really is the appropriate venue before whipping out your College Fund Can! As to forwarding on the odd show to the magic clubs, I hear what you are saying. It can be frustrating that some event planners think they can save a few dollars by getting a free magician when they are paying everyone else. But personally I really don't think it hurts my business, since these people are not going to book me anyway. In fact, I actually do sometimes get people coming back to me the following year saying that they want to book me! Perhaps it is because I was so friendly and helpful the previous year. One point you raise in particular is interesting and deserves further discussion: Quote:
"Magicians" doing shows they are not ready for hurts everyone. But isn't it worse if a magician who is getting paid does a bad show than a magician who is offering a free show because s/he is just starting out? Let's just suppose that Tyler is an awful magician and does a terrible show. He messes up all his tricks and none of his jokes are funny. I guarantee the organizers would be upset and reluctant to hire another magician ever again if they had just paid him $500. But perhaps you are suggesting that he shouldn't do any shows at all until he is "ready." Well, who knows when that might be? And how is he supposed to get to the stage when he is "ready" without actually ever performing for someone? The only way to find out is by doing a few free shows and asking for honest feedback. We all had to start somewhere. I think doing a few free shows is an excellent way to earn your chops. Finally, I’d like to suggest a line of logic to the “professional” magicians who feel it is wrong for amateurs to do free shows. What if Tyler charged 5 dollars? Would that make it okay? Perhaps it is not so much that they are performing for free, it is that they are charging less than you! If you are losing work to magicians who charge less, then you are competing on price which is not a good place to be. Good discussion, ScienceMagician. I feel I know you...do I? Best, James |
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NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
I do free shows ALL the time. However, my rules are..
1) I only do them because I WANT to support the cause. I never do them for publicity or tips. I am there as a charitable contributor. 2) I NEVER accept any form of payment (partial or otherwise). The moment you are paid one cent you become a professional and, in my experience, people paying you an honourium act like they own you and treat you like ****. 3) If I don't want to do the charity, I offer them my usual rate. I never drop my fee because its a charity. 4) When I do perform for free they organisation is not allowed to tell anyone I am performing for free. I do not want kudos as it brings nothing but people wanting to suck you dry! I am either a charitable donar or a professional performer. |
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James Munton Inner circle Dallas, TX 1199 Posts |
Nicholas,
My experience has been exactly the opposite. The more I charge, the better I get treated! Quote:
4)When I do perform for free the organisation is not allowed to tell anyone I am performing for free. I do not want kudos as it brings nothing but people wanting to suck you dry! Why not have the organizer put in the program the actual dollar amount of your performance that you are donating. That way the organizer and the guests see the monetary value of what you are donating rather than seeing you as just a free magician. Consider the average donation of other people attending the event. If you are donating a $1,200 performance fee, and the ticket price is $20, you probably are the largest donor of the evening. You deserve to have everyone know about that! After a few shows, you deserve a street named after you! I agree with ScienceMagician, unless you are just starting out, free shows aren't such a good idea. Best, James |
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Mark Tripp Regular user 148 Posts |
I too have found if the "charity" pays me, I get treated better than those who are there for free.
I also do free shows all the time, for the causes I support. For the others, I use the "I will discount my fee, you get three members to pay" which goes all the way back to Burling Hull, and works very well. Finally, bad magic hurts us all, paid or not. |
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