The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Table hoppers & party strollers » » Color Changing Knifes Handling (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Joshua Holmstadt
View Profile
New user
9 Posts

Profile of Joshua Holmstadt
I have done the hot rod for years, but I really never was a huge fan of the trick, but I liked the move. For this reason I decided to get a set of color changing knifes. Now the effect that I saw the person held both knifes in one hand between their thumb and pointer finger and then did the move. I have tried to do this but I am having trouble doing the move with a two knifes between my fingers. What is the technique? Do I rotate both at the same time or only one or does one knife go between the pointer finger and the middle finger? Thanks
Larry Davidson
View Profile
Inner circle
Potomac, MD
5267 Posts

Profile of Larry Davidson
Rotate both at the same time.
Smoke & Mirrors
View Profile
Special user
506 Posts

Profile of Smoke & Mirrors
Yep, both at the same time, & don't perform it till your ready.
Till then, try holding one knife in each hand and doing "the move" with both hands at the same time. Come up with a some good patter too.
Joshua Holmstadt
View Profile
New user
9 Posts

Profile of Joshua Holmstadt
Hey thanks for the quick responses.
Whit Haydn
View Profile
V.I.P.
5449 Posts

Profile of Whit Haydn
This move is difficult with some sets of knives. It is pretty much a magician's move in my opinion, anyway, and not a natural thing to do with the knives at all.
bishthemagish
View Profile
Inner circle
6036 Posts

Profile of bishthemagish
I always thought that it might be better is to use the color change of the color changing knife as a running gag. Use it like a magic wand for other effects and then change the color of the knife and take no notice of it.

I think if performed right and with the right acting that could be a very funny of beat routine.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20553 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Mr. Haydn is so right it is a magicians move to be sure. There is nothing natural about it from the handling or watching. But if you want to try it make sure you have enough space between the knives to facilitate the rotation. Most problems will arise from the knives rubbing.


Good Luck with it


Danny
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
bishthemagish
View Profile
Inner circle
6036 Posts

Profile of bishthemagish
Quote:
On 2005-06-30 20:27, Dannydoyle wrote:
Mr. Haydn is so right it is a magicians move to be sure. There is nothing natural about it from the handling or watching.

If it entertains the audience DO IT! Forget the part about being natural. When it comes to entertaining the audience almost anything goes!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
astoundingbruce
View Profile
Regular user
Burlington, WI (USA)
127 Posts

Profile of astoundingbruce
Quote:
On 2005-06-29 13:26, bishthemagish wrote:
I always thought that it might be better is to use the color change of the color changing knife as a running gag. Use it like a magic wand for other effects and then change the color of the knife and take no notice of it.

A very clever, creative and magical idea!
“There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact.”
― Arthur Conan Doyle
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20553 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
I think the point of saying it is not natural implies it is not that entertaining. A magicians move the way I understand it is not particularly entertaining to the audience. This is what I thought Mr. Haydn was refering too. If I misunderstood I am indeed sorry. The fact of the matter is that to the people the knives change color and they don't give a hoot how you display them in the first place, just so they change color.

Glen I think we are saying the same thing here, but I would hesitate to " forget the part about being natural". To me Magicians who abandon being natural have a tougher time than those who are. Being natural can provide cover for an entire laundry list of moves.

Danny
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Antony Gerard
View Profile
Veteran user
Kalamazoo, Michigan
359 Posts

Profile of Antony Gerard
In working with knives, as is the case with most any prop, it's important to handle them in a way consistent with how you would actually handle a knife. Otherwise you will draw attention to the knife. No matter how deceptive the move may be, if the spectator suspects that something is amiss the effect is weakened. So if a move looks like a move, either discard it or create a justifiable reason for handling it, the knife, in that manner.

As an example of how to create justification for a seemingly unjustifiable prop, let’s look at the “Hot Rod” as mentioned by Joshua on his first post. In the spectators mind it, the Hot Rod, is a magic prop and nothing more. To counter this reaction from a spectator I explain what it is. This in turn gives the Hot Rod some credibility (its existence has become justified). I am not going to give my full routine here, just a few ideas to show how you can create justification. I start by asking: “Have you ever seen one of these before?” (bring out and show the Hot Rod). I don’t wait for an answer, instead I say: “If you have ever been to a Jewelry store you might have seen one. It’s one of those sticks they use to determine what color jewel best suits your skin tone….” When I need the number selected I talk about lucky numbers and go on to say: “What is your favorite number between one and six?”. I think you get the point.

With the Color Changing Knives there is no need to create justification for the knives because they are knives. Unlike the Hot Rod which doesn't look like anything the spectator has ever seen, so you need justification. If you take an approach similar to the Hot Rod idea above you could create justification for the unjustifiable move as well. Granted to create justification for an unjustifiable move is usually much more difficult, but possible.

The above senario works because the average spectator does not want to appear ignorant, so they acknowledge the fact that the Hot Rod is what you say it is. They convince themselves that it's a jewelers stick.

Joshua if you are interested in any other Knife routines or ideas you might want to check out Karl Norman’s routine, Matt Schulian’s routine, Mike Skinner’s routine, and Arturo de Ascanio’s book “Ascanio’s World Of Knives”. All have great material in them for the knife worker.

If you are ever in the market for a set of knives, I manufacture a five knife set complete with book containing the Karl Norman and Matt Schulien routines. Also included are quite a few of my ideas and routines, one of which introduces the knives as part of my knife collection. PM me for pictures and information.


Take care and take cards
Antony Gerard

PS: I did receive permission to include the Karl Norman and Matt Schulien routines in my book.
fccfp
View Profile
Special user
NJ
561 Posts

Profile of fccfp
Mike Skinner's video tape is a good introduction to the knives and teaches a simple, straight forward routine that works well for most audiences. I recommend it as a good starting place. Whit's "Intricat Web Of Distraction" dvd is very good as it teaches many more advanced moves as well as Whit's excellent routine. I personally learn better from videos than books, but that is a personal preference. Merrill's book is a "must" for anyone who is interested in doing more than the basics with the knives as it goes into theory of the presentation as well as many additional moves and ideas. If you still want more, it's out there. Just google or send me a PM.

Good luck w/ the knives. They are my favorite pocket trick.

Bruce

P.S. Anthony, I looked at your website and did not see your knives. Can you post the link or PM me please? I collect sets of CC knives and would be interested in seeing yours.
Bruce
A.K.A. Jay The Magician
www.jaythemagician.com
Antony Gerard
View Profile
Veteran user
Kalamazoo, Michigan
359 Posts

Profile of Antony Gerard
Bruce

I'm in the middle of doing a total redesign on my web site so there is a lot down on the site at this time. I will have the knife set pictures up later next week, however, if you send me an e-mail I will send you a picture tomorrow. Because I like a knife that realy looks like a knife, my knife set is similar in design to the Schulien and Scotty York knives. I make the knives available as just the set of knives or as the set of knives with book.

Take care and take cards
Antony Gerard
PS: Do you have in your collection Ascanio's book? If not it's a must for the knife aficionado. I don't believe that it's still available but if you check ebay, occasionally one pops up.
Euangelion
View Profile
Special user
688 Posts

Profile of Euangelion
Quote:
On 2005-06-30 20:27, Dannydoyle wrote:
Mr. Haydn is so right it is a magicians move to be sure. There is nothing natural about it from the handling or watching. But if you want to try it make sure you have enough space between the knives to facilitate the rotation. Most problems will arise from the knives rubbing.


Good Luck with it


Danny



Danny, you beat me to the punch. It is very important, more so with some knives than others, to have adequate space between the knives. They cannot be touching and binding each other.
Bill Esborn

"Lutefisk: the piece of cod that passes all understanding."
Villa
View Profile
New user
49 Posts

Profile of Villa
Bill Malone's "Walk About Knives" on DVD Vol 4 is worth checking out.

Villa
Whit Haydn
View Profile
V.I.P.
5449 Posts

Profile of Whit Haydn
Quote:
On 2005-07-01 17:59, Dannydoyle wrote:
I think the point of saying it is not natural implies it is not that entertaining. A magicians move the way I understand it is not particularly entertaining to the audience. This is what I thought Mr. Haydn was refering too.
Danny


I did not mean that the move is not entertaining, I meant that it is an unnatural move. No one would put two knives in one hand to display in that way without a reason. It is awkward and "unnatural." It draws the spectator's attention in a bad way.

The move can be made natural through justification, but it really needs to be justified before being used--it is not acceptable as "natural" in itself. For example, if you have a knife in each hand, and you need to pick up some third object--another knife, a wand, a handkerchief, etc.--you might put a second knife in you right hand in order to free your left to pick up the new object. Now you have a reason to display both knives in the same hand. The awkwardness of the move is justified by the necessity of handling more than two objects.

Who but a one-handed person would pick up two knives in one hand to show them to someone when it would be so much easier to pick up and display a knife in each hand?

I do not agree with Glenn's statement at all. Very seldom are unnatural, suspicious, and unjustified actions entertaining. They do not look like magic--they look like juggling and smell of trickery. When you are displaying something like a knife, it should be done the way you would do it if you weren't doing anything else but displaying the knife. If if looks like your handling is over-careful, hesitant, awkward or difficult in any way, then the suspicions of your audience will be aroused and the illusion of magic dissipated. What can't be made to look natural must be justified as a natural.

I call it a "magician's move," because the way it is usually presented--that is without justification--adds nothing to the effect. To show both sides of two knives in one hand is no different than showing two knives one in each hand. It is the same thing to a spectator. You are simply showing the knives on both sides. It isn't something difficult. They could do it. They could do it in one hand or with a knife in each hand. What is the point?

Only a magician who knows that a secret move is being done at the same time would be impressed that the move is done with two knives in one hand. So you are doing a move that is only intended to be appreciated by a magician who already understands the method. It adds nothing to the believability, impression of skill, entertainment, or deceptiveness of the routine for the spectator who doesn't know how the trick works. It is simply a "show-off" move for other magicians.
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20553 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Thank you for the clarification Mr. Hayden. Jay Marshal told me once when I was practicing with knife moves, " It's a pocket knife, handle it like one".

We have the same definition of "magicians move". However the difference is your ability to properly convey that definition to the written word.

Thanks

Good Luck

Danny
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Table hoppers & party strollers » » Color Changing Knifes Handling (0 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.22 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL