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Mr. Muggle Special user 999 Posts |
My rabbits are now showing signs of aggression that they never showed before; so after reading the books that I have in my library I thought I'd try the Café' for help.
The most dominate male has always "thumped" around the cage when put back inside after being worked with. His personality traits helped me decide to use him only for a vanish since he is one part of an identical pair- and has a strong temperament. I hoped that this would be smart when deciding how to use him in the show. His brother is the total opposite, he will lick you and cuddle most of the time. Because of his traits he is the production rabbit who gets to meet the audience. I've recently had (on and off)children around the house (ages 6 and 13), and since the rabbits are all acting jittery and aggressive. The now don't like to be held, and run when you attempt to pick them up. This I find odd, especially since they spend so much time out of their cage (usually about 3 hrs per day). The children have had limited actions with the animals, so I'm not sure if the answer is as simple as I would think. Does anyone have any advice that they can try to offer? The pair I spoke of above are strictly "box" rabbits, but my "bag" rabbit is also now starting to show similar signs. They are about 4 months old, and I'm in the process of making a call to the vet to get them all neutered. They all get along great among themselves, and they all have plenty of room in their cage. Thanks in advance. MM
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
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booker New user earth 30 Posts |
The neutering is going to make the difference. I have two females, one is spayed, and the difference is night and day in their personalities. After their surgery your buns will mellow out...some.
Booker |
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KyletheGreat Special user Georgia 560 Posts |
I have a female holland lop.
Do you spend a lot of time with your rabbits? They tend to grow away from you if you stop spending time with them. You have to bond with your rabbit and make it a pet that loves you. Once it loves you, it should not mind whether or not you pick it up. They must become comfortable and remain comfortable being held. Rabbits have a natural fear of being off the ground, and this is why they must learn to trust you picking them up. When you think about it, we seem like a threat to the rabbits because of our size. You know it scares them when you just reach in and pick them up without even stroking their head a time or two. Spend some more time with your rabbits and let them bond with you more. Then the mood should change a little bit. |
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Chrystal Inner circle Canada/France 1552 Posts |
Hi,
I'm also of the school of thought that neutering will be beneficial. Usually you can't keep two males together unless they are siblings but even then one is already showing dominance which in their world is natural. The neutering should help correct this with both..as the more submissive one is not feeling the threat of the other one and the more dominant one will become more passive after the operation. Please note with dogs the full results don't show up until a few weeks after the surgery, once their hormone levels adjust..not sure if it's the same length of time with rabbits. Usually the earlier it's done, the better, some say at 4- 6 months, before they have had the opportunity to have the traits like spraying, thumping and humping, but can be done at any age. Humping isn't always sexual either but of dominance and so I'm guessing as to what may be causing stress amongst your two boys. In the wild you would never see males together once they reached maturity and then there would be a battle over which is more dominant. As these two are brothers they are used to each other but don't be surprised if a fight breaks out between them and the more submissive one is badly injured. The thumping the more dominant one is doing may be a warning sign to the other or he is trying to attract females. He's probably frustrated ..okay that sounds somewhat funny but he's becoming stressed, I'm assuming. I'm glad you're getting them neutered as this will possibly prevent this from happening. Good Luck and be patient..I'm sure you'll see a change in a few weeks after the surgery. |
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Bob Johnston Inner circle Philadelphia, PA 1251 Posts |
Mr. Muggle:
The aggression will be all but eliminated when the males are neutered. Regarding not wanting to be picked up: All the instincts a rabbit has tell them that being picked up is a precursor to dying. It is the last thing their instincts tell them they will experience before being eaten. To modify this behavior, you should: Cradle them in your arms with body and arms against their sides, the feet must be supported and not just hanging. This will eventually give them a secure feeling. Although it may seem odd at first, handling their face is very important to this comfort treatment. Gently scratching the bridge of their nose is especially important. The face is the area that rabbits use to interact with each other and if you pursue this they will soon start licking your hand. Licking your hand has nothing to do with salt on your skin. It is, in fact, their ultimate form of affection and grooming. In rabbit to rabbit communications, it is as sign that the rabbit would like some affection in return. Thumping is not an aggressive move, both males and females do it and it has more to do with exercising legs and expressing joy than anything else. It is one of the first things a rabbit does when coming out of a confined area like a cage. Bob PS.. You sound like you really care about your rabbits. |
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Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
All said above is correct.
Males must be separated, neutering makes a big difference, and thumping is a defensive, and aggressive action. It's also a way of attracting females. The only defense they have is barking, biting, and scratching. My wife asked me, since I have big cages, what would happen if the two males were put together. They are on my closed in back deck for safety, so I let them both go at opposite ends of the room the smaller one and bigger one. they went directly for each other. in 10 seconds I had clumps of hair and the one would not let the other go. I didn't expect this reaction so quick, but clearly, males cannot be together. My female keeps both calm in the cages because she is in between both and it works well. She is the grower and biter and I don't use her in my shows. Both the males are goo in the show, but the biggest is the gentlest.
Dennis Michael
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Bob Johnston Inner circle Philadelphia, PA 1251 Posts |
Quote:
thumping is a defensive, and aggressive action. It's also a way of attracting females. STOMPING does not have anything to do with mating and is found in more females than males. A stomp with a back foot basically means one of two things - "Watch out! Danger!" or "I'm really annoyed at you!" Anytime a bunny sees something out of place or that startles her, she may thump to warn you and any other bunnies within hearing. If you have picked up your bunny or shooed him away from something, he may stomp to show you he's really annoyed with you and letting you know he's not happy with YOUR behavior. This is not an aggressive action, but rather a passive response. Bob |
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Mr. Muggle Special user 999 Posts |
I put each rabbit in their own individual cage until they all get neutered. Thanks for all the advice and help. I usually pet and talk to them before I pick them up, to try and help them relax. Unfortunately the temperament for one still has not changed- he still very much prefers to be left alone. I find this really odd because he didn't act like this for the first few months that I had him.
For now I'm trying something different to see if they act any differently. I let them out and I just ignore them while I sit and read on the floor each evening. I'm hoping that this will help and their attitude will change once they all see the vet. MM
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
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Chrystal Inner circle Canada/France 1552 Posts |
Hi Mr Muggle,
Actually after reading up more about it, I realized Wellington is correct. The thumping, not to be confused with the high kicks of joy, means they are annoyed, fearful or warning of danger. I just posted a great site that I found, which made me think of you and your two males. I titled it, Everything you wanted to know about rabbits but were afraid to ask. Make sure you check it out as it's a very helpful and insightful place to get more info on rabbit behavior. Cheers! Chrystal |
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Bob Johnston Inner circle Philadelphia, PA 1251 Posts |
Some behaviorists think (and I do) that the (jumping and spin) move is a “practice” escapee move more than just jumping for joy. It is often followed by wildly acrobatic running in short angular turns.
Much of their instinctive behavior is about getting away from danger and death. Bob |
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Arnon Inner circle 1320 Posts |
Wellington, you sound like a rabbit lover with personal experience, as am I.
Some call the "jump & spin" move a "binky," and it is widely held to be a move to escape a pursuing attacker. As you know, in the wild, rabbits mate and then usually get eaten by any one of their numerous predators. Their main survival skill is their swift, darting ability in any direction from any position. Have you ever tried to corner one in a closed-in back yard? They have moves that would put a football receiver to shame. |
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Dakota Rose New user Dakota Rose 100 Posts |
Hi Mr. Muggle,
I just wanted to share what happened with my 2 bunnies. They are sisters and they played together for two years with no problem. Then the larger one started biting the smaller one. Unfortunately, I didn't notice this at first since there was no blood and I couldn't see through the fur. But one day I could tell the smaller one was sick. I took her to the vet and he noticed all the bite marks. Poor thing. I felt really bad. She's OK now. So, now I have to keep them apart because the bigger one will attack the smaller one. Fortunately, they are both very passive in shows and have never tried biting anyone. Sorry, you are having problems with the one. I hope things work out. Dakota Rose
Dream things that never were and say, "Why not."
Junior Editor Linking Ring - Youth Forum www.dakotarosemagic.com |
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Bob Johnston Inner circle Philadelphia, PA 1251 Posts |
Arnon:
Yes that is were I first saw the move and concluded it was a escape maneuver. The zig-zag running is a joy to watch as well. Bob |
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Zack Special user 551 Posts |
Males CAN be kept together, but only if they are nuetered. Otherwise they'll be fights.
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Daniel Faith Inner circle Neenah, Wisconsin 1526 Posts |
Neutering is good advise.
Sounds like they may have been traumatized by these children. Kids easily abuse animals without realizing it. If the rabbit squirms they instantly squeeze too hard to control it.
Daniel Faith
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Mr. Muggle Special user 999 Posts |
I keep an eye on the kids and my library is off limits most of the time. As far as I can tell they haven't been traumatized, although you never really can tell what happens when the adult isn't home. The rabbit's have been separated and one at a time they have been getting neutered. I am afraid to put them back together as they once were, but let them all roam together when I'm in the room reading or working on my act. When they are out roaming there aren't any problems, but I'm not willing to put them together to possibly fight when I'm not around (one guy just had his hair grow back).
I also started hand feeding both the rabbits and my doves after a friend suggested that I give it a try. MM
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
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sloopcamelot New user 13 Posts |
Mr. Muggle,
My son use to sing to his rabbit. Seemed to calm her. Loved to hop in our laps and get her nose scratched. She was also very jealous. If he was playing with Lego's, she would come and tear his projects down. Rabbits need a lot more personal attention than most people realize. Fay |
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Mr. Muggle Special user 999 Posts |
I talk out loud around my rabbits while in my library working on show lines, etc. but Im not sure that my singing would help. When I start to sing my wife leaves the room so I doubt that the rabbits will find it soothing.
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
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Bob Johnston Inner circle Philadelphia, PA 1251 Posts |
Rabbits have selective hearing, half the time they hear nothing.
Bob |
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Mr. Muggle Special user 999 Posts |
That must be why they get along so well with my wife and kids! LOL
"Now you're looking for the secret... but you won't find it because you're not really looking. You don't really want to know the secret... You want to be fooled." - The Prestige (2006)
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