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hkwiles
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Howard Wiles
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Mr. Jackson didn't think there was anything morally wrong with what he was doing....

Howard
Danzig
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You should I got a kick out those things when I was in K-4th and $2500 is a good deal.
joshlondon
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I am sorry Jordan, but for you to say that this is morally wrong for me to do this is not right for you to say. I don't want to start a whole big thing here, I just wanted some input about this topic, and to be honest I think it is wrong of you to tell someone else what is wrong or right to them.
bobser
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Quote:
On 2005-07-16 12:58, joshlondon wrote:

Hypnosis has been used in hypnotherepy for a long time

Yes joshlondon. In fact, not just for a long time but rather... every single time!
That'll be why they call it 'hypno'therapy as opposed to 'spanking'therapy which is a totally different way of getting rid of one's phobias.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
joshlondon
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Bobser, I sincerly apoligize with the utmost sarcasm. Just joking.
jstone
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Quote:
On 2005-07-17 15:51, joshlondon wrote:
I am sorry Jordan, but for you to say that this is morally wrong for me to do this is not right for you to say. I don't want to start a whole big thing here, I just wanted some input about this topic, and to be honest I think it is wrong of you to tell someone else what is wrong or right to them.

Josh,

I think it's morally wrong to do the show. That does not mean that I'm forcing my beliefs on you. I'm simply giving you my opinion that I think what you are going to do is morally wrong (I'm assuming you're going to take the show). However, I'm not telling you what to do. I'm just expressing my opinion. If I can't express my opinion, then you neither can you, and therefore you would not be able to say that you hate it when people force their beliefs on others.
joshlondon
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Jstone, we could go on and on, however, I do not have the time to do that, I appreciate your (and everyone's) input, beliefs, opinions, or whatever.
Jordan Waller
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No Josh, you seem to apreciate everyones oppinion that does not conflict with yours. If you are going to play the 'stop forcing your beleifs' card everytime you don't agree with someone you should never have posted and in fact should stay well away from any other similiar discussions were different oppinions are offered.
One day I will write a book
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The Gentleman
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Quote:
On 2005-07-13 08:19, kinesis wrote:
I think the parents of the children would be outraged if this show went on without individual parental permission. If any child behaved in even a slightly different mannor after the show you'd have a huge legal case on your hands. I always thought there was an age restriction on these things if it was a performance rather than therapy.

I once considered a similiar feat utilizing Nitrous Oxide, aka Laughing Gas.
Not having read all of this thread because I do like to noisily jump in with my opinions, I'm with Josh. It disgusted me when I heard about the Church of England using hypnotism in their Sunday schools.
I... I don't really know how that applies, but I decided to mention it and you can't stop me.
I would say rely on your personal judgement, but kid, I don't know you.

Edit: I think UK Law states something about being 12+ when it comes to subliminal and hypnotic material. That might be from Brown's patter at his live show, though.

Edit: Oh bugger that was meant to be the quote about having Ether in a bucket. -- OTHER forums have the quote button bellow, y'know.
joshlondon
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Thanks for the link Drew, that is a great article! I liked it a lot.

The Gentleman: I heard this stroy about Ormand McGill using ether to put volunteers under back in the day. He would have a big bucket of it and a fan behind the bucket and as he gave his pretalk they were already "hypnotized."

Jordan: Point well taken, I'll make sure to make a note of it!
Lee Darrow
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Okay, voice of experience here. For the past 20-odd years, I have been doing hypnosis shows at a group of Jewish Youth Camps in the midwest. Supervised by Rabbis, Orthodox, no less and I'm not Jewish, so that should give you some idea of the level of trust involved.

I usually do about a dozen of these per summer and at least a dozen more of the youth groups during the rest of the year, plus a number of synagogues and high school groups, like USY as well.

As to the moral implications, as my show does not do the demeaning skits - no animal impressions, no household appliances, etc., but does improvisational theater-like routines that stress creativity, the shows are viewed as being educational and empowering (that's a quote from several of the supervising Rabbis, not from me). The kids actually clammor to be involved because they know that they are going to have as much fun on stage as in the audience because they get to experience the wonders inside their heads themselves.

If this is morally wrong, I am guilty as charged.

The parents all know about the shows before the kids go to camp and we've only had one parent decide that they didn't want their kid to attend, which was okay with everyone. The next year, after the parent had gotten the reports of how the show went and had seen the video, not only did the kid get permission, but the parents came up because they were excitd about seeing the show themselves and hired me for one of their parties later that year.

The keys to working this age group are respect, care, dignity and professionalism. If you treat them in a way that lets them know that they are powering up their abilities of imagination and concentration, as opposed to playing stupid power games as some hypnotists do, then you will do just fine. If you let them know that everyone is there to have fun and not to embarrass anyone and live up to the promise, you will work the gig again and again.

You will also gain the respect of the people running the gig and the parents.

With regard to parental permission, a caveat: let the parents know that if they do not want their child to attend the show, they should send a letter stating the fact, as opposed to sending s aigned permission slip. here's why: parents are lazy and kids forget.

Parents will forget to sign the slips and kids will forget to turn them in and you will have a group of 4 to choose from to do your show. Been there, had it happen.

Doing it the other way, makes it easier and only the parents who are really opposed will sign off and make sure the letter gets delivered.

Just some comments from someone who has done more than a few of these.

Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!"
joshlondon
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Thanks Lee!
jimtron
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For those saying it's amoral to hynotize children--it seems to me that you've been heavy on the judging and light on explaining your reasons. Jordan called hypnosis of children "appaling" and, when asked why:

Quote:
If you realy need to ask this you have serious issues.

It is just morally wrong to do this.

Children are innocent beings that do not need humiliating or being psychologicaly ****ed up in front of a crowd of all their peers. Especialy in this day and age.

I'm curious to hear more specifics on why this is wrong. When adults are hypnotized, are they being psychologically ****ed up and humiliated? I'm still not real clear on what the difference is. Assuming that the hypnotist is not a jerk who is out to humiliate people. If the hypnotist is respectful and sensitive careful, and parents are present and have given their permission, is it still morally wrong?

What is inherently amoral about hypnotizing a child?

By the way, I don't have an opinion about hypnosis in general yet; I don't know enough about it. I'm just curious about those who have made judgements.
bobser
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Nice write up Drew. Well done. Do keep us informed. TV programmes have been made with much worse ideas!!!

Bobser

Had to pop in again. just noticed I was the six hundredth and sixty sixth person to view this particular thread. (666)
Just wanted to tell everyone!

Bobser
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
The Gentleman
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God I've missed you, Bobser.
bobser
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Get in the que gentleman. lots of magicians want to be hugged by these arms.
Anyway, ta.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
GothicBen
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Lee Darrow had answered the question very well, with his list of caveats.

However, I am going to address an issue that I feel has been deliberately skirted around.

Imagine if parents find out that their children were "hypnotised".

Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't the public perception of hypnosis is some semi-magical skill where the hypnotists can get anyone to do their bidding. A cliche, I know, but one that is commonly held, even by well-informed individuals.

Parents could jump to conclusions and think that if you can make children dance around like chickens, then you could easily put them in a trance and sexually abuse them.

For the sake of cash, do you really want to open yourself up to accusations?

Ben
jimtron
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Ben:

Getting permission from the parents would be essential, I would think. What I'm wondering is, do people think it's *inherently* amoral to hypnotize children? And if so, why?
Jonathan Townsend
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If you are hearing a voice in your head as you scan these symbols, you are under hypnosis right now. And most parents want their children hypnotized into such strange behaviors as spelling, knowing the "times table" and of course holding a politically correct worldview.

Get over it.

You want to know what really scares most adults... the idea that children might actually hold them accountable for the things they do and ask children to believe.

P.S., IMHO a performer doing anything to embarrass a child or raise uncomfortable questions without the explicit permission, consent and support of their parent/guardian is doing a BAD thing.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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