Guys,
Does who has the best sales course REALLY matter? It's like asking who has the best ice cream.... That's why Baskin-Robbins makes 31 flavors. It's far more important to BECOME a great salesperson. Yes, you need to give good phone. But that's best learned (I think) from experience. We're riding a long dead horse here! Snipeing isn't growing.....

Personally I like Jeffrey Gitomer's Sales Bible but that's just me! I also like Kevin Hogan's stuff! Learn how to give good phone. Be interested in the CLIENTS NEEDS not YOUR WANTS. I recommend The Relationship Edge in Buiness by Jerry Acuff.

This snipeing is why so many leave The Café. Everyone has an opinion. Some you'll agree with....some you won't. Everyone is at a different place in their careers & knowledge. Accept it and go on..... It is not worth a tread of 50 posts of he said, he said.

Hope this breaks this argument up.
John

Hi Danny,

OK… uh brother! THIS is why I do NOT like the internet (ask anyone who truly knows me!) for the total abuse and misinterpretations of what is said as it is with-out intonation and all the rest of the way to create understanding.

I NEVER (Yes, capitol letters) meant to do anything but get more information FIRST about the course information you love and then as to why you are so angry at me for no reason. – Just for ASKING?

IF you knew me, and you don’t, (just like I don’t know YOU) you would KLNOW a few things:
1) I am dedicated to the success of others!
2) I am a lousy typer!
3) I use A LOT OF CAPS and “quotation makes” and Exclamation Marks! And the like… it is just how I post.
4) I mean ZERO mal-intent… JUST Trying to Get More Information. … is that too much to ask?

Yeah, there’s more, but that’s enough for now…

DANNY:
You seem to forget when you mention how I belittled you that you called the Xerox course a COPY OF THE CARNEIGE CORUSE!

- DEAN:
NOPE, didn’t say that… didn’t MEAN that, didn’t Imply that brother. Sorry it was interpreted that way. Xerox is a “Copy Manufacturer” and I was making that joke whether or not you BELIVE me, I can’t control, and no matter if you understand it or not, believe it or not, it WAS in fact a bad “copy machine company” JOKE. (Never said it was a good jokle either – Hehehehe! But still it was with the best of intentions, like it or not.

Sorry you were offended! That too was NOT my intention… in my ORIGINAL POST all I did was ASK for more information about this training thing you are so obviously passionate about. Nothing more, and now THIS.

Danny:
PLEASE do NOT turn this into more than it is, OK.

- DEAN:
I’m not.

I Am Faaaaar from angry, snippy, upset or anything but ‘puzzled’ by your post when asked for a simple answer to al simple question for more information to LEARN from… that’s all bud.

Danny:
Sure you followed it with That was a joke, but it still seemed snippy and as if you were not only belittling me, but anyone who took the course.

DEAN:
WHERE? WHEN did I suggest any such thing? Sorry bud… never did that, never meant that. Just a simple joke as stated. Nothing more.

Danny:
You follow that with telling me that in 30+ years you NEVER capital letters NEVER heard of it and give a rundown of your qualifications.

DEAN:
a) Like I said, if you read ANY of my shares here, you will see that I use lots of caps… sorry you don’t like it.
b) just mentioned a few things for the sake of clarity… trust me, those are far from my “qualifications” brother.

PLEASE, this is really no big deal.

Danny:
Then your next post contains something hinting about how you don't even know what PSS is with exclimation points after it. Usinig sarcastic words like magic key word phrases and "mystical Letters".

Here is what I said:


Danny, I simply said what I meant and meant what I said… nothing more. Funny enough, I STILL have no idea what PSS stands for in regards to the Xerox deal…

I’m NOT worried, I WILL find out even IF you would rather be upset and angry than simply answer my question buddy.

REMEMBER: All I am guilty of is originally asking a question for more information to LEARN from. That’s all.

Danny:
Oh right you said Its a joke. So that makes it less snippy? If I said "It was a joke" would you be less angry?

DEAN:
Yep… that is the way it WAS. No need to suggest otherwise. I am in no-way angry, snippy or sarcastic about this Xerox thing. REMEMBER: all I did was ASK A QUESTION.

Danny:
OH then you end with I am at your service and in HIS service like I am supposed to automatically assume your not being sarcastic?

DEAN:
Assume anything you like brother. AGAIN, if you look an ANY SINGLY ONE of my shares here, you will see that I LOVE GOD and I am NOT ashamed or hiding of that fact. I love YOU TOO, no matter how mad you get at me. Understand that or not, that too is TRUE brother!

Danny:
Ok tip #1 here learn to use the "quote post button" this will save you immense amount of time typing and scrolling.

DEAN:
No worries brother, again, if you’ve read any of my shares here, you will see I have a working knowledge of the “QUOTE” system. I CHOSE not to use it as it was waaaay easier to do so. No lesson required, but thanks for the tip. (Honestly… thanks for your concern for my posting knowledge!)

Danny:
Tip #2. When you sign up on this they spacifically caution you AGAINST using jokes and sarcasam, as they don't translate well to the medium. You say you were joking I say you were being snippy to use your words. This will get agression out of me every time it is done.

DEAN:
My deepest and most sincere apologies for the misinterpretation of my simple, silly joke. I will try and remember that it makes you ‘aggressive’ and try and avoid that when posting for you.

Thank you for that personal insight.


Danny:
Tip #3. Do some research before being funny or sarcastic. It will help.

DEAN:
BINGO! - THAT is what I WAS DOING here in the very FIRST PLACE brother… THAT was the entire point to begin with… REMEMBER, all I did was ask you ONE SIMPLE QUESTION, and now here we are.

Danny:
Tip#4. Do me a favor and drop the hurt kitten act.

DEAN:
No hurt kitten act... just puzzled as stated.

Danny:
YOU are the one who was sarcastic and trying to play it off. You certianly got more than you wanted to hear, but that may be a good lesson. Lets just pretend I added "Just Joking" at the end of the post. That seems to wash away all sins of sarcasam and belittling now dosn't it? OK add "Just Joking" that way nobody has hurt feelings.

DEAN:
I’m sorry you feel this way buddy… like I said, no mal-intended jokes, sarcasm, hurt kitty, belittling comments or using God as an excuse for anything.

JUST ASKED a question. (To which has YET to be answered by you brother.)

Danny:
Bottom line friend is you should not jump in and try to belittle others, while hiding it with alleged humor. At least be honest about it and call it what it is. I would at least respect that.

DEAN:
I am being honest. I zero reason to do otherwise. Again, sorry for the misinterpretation of it all my friend.

Danny:
As for your profession, I can only assume you are qualified. I choose to assume you are mind you as none of us here can actually provide adequate proof of such. I just assume you are who you say you are.

Dean don't jump on me then say " I was only joking" and we should be OK in the future

Danny

DEAN:
Danny, my brother, It matters little that my professionalism and/or qualifications impress anyone, THAT has NOTHING to do with any of this.

Again, ALL I DID WAS ASK FOR MORE INFORMATION. Of THAT I am immensely guilty

Those who know me, know I’m a real guy with experience. Just cuz some don’t know me doesn’t mean that any of the who we are or are-not is any less true, but again, what does THAT have to do with one guy (me) asking for more information about this training thing… still puzzled. (Nothing more.)

Maybe we can NOT address this consideration further as it has little or NOTHING to do with advancing this thread, this place, our relationship and the specific question at hand?

Is that fair?

Take care of yourself my brother!

I am still at your service and In HIS Service,
Rev Deano in Reno
<><

PS
Still love ya' bro!

Hey JohnMeister,

Didn’t see your post sitten’ there!

Your right.... my ONLY aim was to “ask for” and hopefully get more information to grow on. Nothing more. No biggy.

I never eluded that one was any better than the other, I don’t even know about the Xerox one (Hense the ASKING about it in the first place… hehehehe!) to be able to make a distinction any way... just looking for more worthwhile knowledge to apply. The never-ending quest… you know!

I DO absolutely LOVE and ADDOR Tony Robbins’s "10 Steps To Sales Mastery" training as the very BEST "I" (This is MY experience and opinion here… no fighting, OK?) have personally ever been involved with... again, don’t know enough about the other one to say one way or the other.

All I was doing was trying to find out information here... no "bad stuff" intended or delivered.

Sorry gang!

Thanks John!

I am, as always, at your service and In HIS Service,
Dean, getting boiled (100+ degrees) here in Reno
<><

That's OK DeanO! Just was getting a little heated. (must be the heat! hehehe!)

Let's surfice it to say, "To each they're own!" What works for each of us, WORKS for each of us! People come from different experiences to the Café. I personally am trying to realize there are "many paths" to the same door!

And yes I like Tony's stuff too!

Don't overlook the book I recommeded in the earlier post.... it's a keeper!

All The Best!
John

Dean,
PSS -Professional Selling Skills. Xerox stakes claim on being the first to use a well-developed sales process amongst the business-to-business sales organizations. They also sort of stake claim on the word “PSS.” Most business’s copied their success/methods calling it the “Seven Steps to the Sale,” or something like that.




For the benefit of others, but mostly getting it clear in my own mind,and Danny correct me if I’m way off.

The Xerox course is more like a manual. (Like he said.) A company way of doing business in a professional way. It’s not a course or book that you can simply buy. It’s still used mainly amongst the business-to-business sales folks, being taught in corporate sales seminars to their sales associates. I would think you would almost have to be an employee of these sales companies to attend a seminar whereas they refer to it as being the original program of Xerox. (Possible independent training people teaching it, we just don’t know who.) Of course, I’m sure there’s plenty of like employee programs being taught, but most never learn where it came from. They only know it as their company program.

In other words, the Xerox program is a lot like the Carneige course, but includes more tailored per company stuff.


Of course I agree with John, there’s plenty of good cheap books out there that can take you a long way.

Tom

I also don't care which one is better, or mean to imply that one was superior to another (everyone has opinions).

I was simply asking more questions so I can learn more. I was just being genuinely interested in other training methods and resources out there. I like hearing how different people have come to the point they are at, and how they use what they have learned to help themselves and their customers. (For Dean it was Tony Robbins Training, for me it was Dale Carnegie Training, for Danny Doyle it was Xerox PSS, etc.)

I didn't ask further questions so I could gather ammunition to push for an arguement (I don't even play a lawyer on TV... Hehehe!)

- Donald

Dean -

The Hawaii article was interesting (link earlier, thanks to Keith Stickley), but if you do a google search with these keywords...

Xerox PSS features and benefits

... then you will find many links. I read some interesting comments about Xerox PSS here, which was the second google link. This is a really neat page, by the way. Lots of different sales techniques explained / outlined.

BTW, for classic books on selling, don't forget Frank Bettger's "How I Raised Myself From Failure To Success In Selling."

- Donald

P.S. Before Carnegie Training, I first learned about the idea of selling using "features and benefits" from Keith Sobie books back in the 1980s (Keith was a columnist for Laugh Makers, and published a series of books under his company name, PromoMagic).

John, Tom, Donald,

THANKS so much! I think we are all on the same page here... just wanting to LEARN more so I can be genuinely informed as to more of the possible options as a HUGE part of my life and business is being informed, learning so I can provide as much value centered solutions as possible to all I encounter.

I also, after some considerable searching have bookmarked some places that I will STUDY on this topic when I have more time. The best return “for me” was "Xerox University" and some of the ones Donald pointed out.

THANKS again guys.

Didn’t mean to ruffle any feathers... Like I said "Just Asking" with genuine intent on learning.

You brothers are awesome!

Danny my friend, I hope we have the opportunity to "Grow-On" and learn from each other brother. I am REALLY in no-way mad or any of that other stuff... just another brother along side of you in the trenches!

Love you guys!!! Take care my friends!

I am, as always, at your service and In HIS Service,
Rev Dean Hankey, "The Success Solutionist!"
<><

Donald,
Funny you should mention Keith Sobie. I wonder what ever happened to him. He was a really great guy. I hired him to write a business plan for my old company Smilemakers Entertainment. Funny thing is I grew into what he envisioned almost 20 yrs ago. I still look at that marketing plan today! Best money I ever spent was on his stuff! Anyone know what became of Keith?

All The Best!
John

John -

Besides buying his books, I also paid Keith to write some copy for a promotional flyer, and also design a logo for me (for an old business name). I still use some of his copy on some of my current materials.

Last I recall, Keith dropped off the scene after his wife passed away (I don't know for sure that was the reason, I just recall the timing of events). I don't know any other details. I once did a google search of his name, and there was one website that mentioned his show, but it was a performance from a few years ago.

- Donald

John thank for jumping in, but you missed the point. I never was arguing merit. not my case here. I was offended by the joke pure and simple. This is why we are cautioned against using them the day we sign up I guess.

This was my entire point. I feel whatever system works for people works for them and good. Find what works. Pieces from here there and everywhere. That is truley the best way to do it in my opinion. My suggestion was merley a place to start is all.

It is indeed a manual. It is also a course taught by some credited companies. The course had taken many forms over 30 years. Again I am not arguing merit here. My masters degree is in marketing not sales. Believe it or not 2 completley different animals. Which is why I had to take the dumb course in the first place!

Things like "assume the sale", "ask qualifying questions" such as If I can provide this will you buy this. Then you provide it. This is a qualifying question.

Features and benifits. You have a feature, it will benifit your client how? These things are common to ALL sales courses or should be at least, Xerox has a cool way of expressing and teaching them though is my point.

My original point however which Donald asked about was that I feel it is expressed better to those without a sales spacific background. I felt that it starts you with 0 knowlege and brings you to the end. THAT was really my main point probably lost in the arguement.

Dean don't confuse being angry with being offended. I can get over angry pretty easily. Offended however is another matter entirley. I was offended. If you truley meant nothing then so be it I have to take you at your word. Do me a favor in the future. When asking a question, just ask it. No capital letters, no stupid jokes that have to be analyzed to understand, just the question. It will leave no room for misunderstanding then will it?

I love questions. I learn from them. Even when asked of me I can learn from my answer. That is the point. We don't stop learning my friends till we are food for worms.

OkieDokie.

Sheesh!

I go work for the weekend, come back, and it got HOT in here! You're welcome for the link. Let's expend some energy working instead of going all cut throat. Can't we all just get along

As far as PSS not being popular public knowledge, to Dean's and others defense I can understand that. Having insight in the pharmaceutical industry, I can tell you that those sales forces (often with training based on Xerox PSS) tend to guard their knowledge fiercely. I could be wrong, but I am not sure anything extensive has been published for the general public on their concepts. We should look though. It is VERY interesting stuff, relying more on input form the CLIENT than the seller (something I find lacking in a lot of today's "systems").

Anyone else find anything published on this that is main-stream?

Keith Stickley


Hey Guys -

I came across this:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det......n=507846

Supposedly goes into detail regarding the Xerox PSS sales techniques. Thought you mya be interested.

Keith Stickley

Wow. 1 mil posts on Café!

The Dale Carnegie Sales Advantage Training is based on the questioning process with the customer (interest phase), and presenting a solution based on their information (solutions phase). There are other phases involved in their sales process, as well.

When I took the classroom training, there was no book available (we used other Dale Carnegie books and workbooks as the textbook). Now there is a book with the title "The Sales Advantage", that also discusses this approach. (Reading the book, and acting on the contents, is not the same as taking the live training. Same for most training systems, I am sure.)

- Donald

Thanks Keith.

Donald,

Xerox more relies on ways to find info without the questioning process. They try to get the customer talking so you can find a way to " find the need and fill the need" sales 101. Just a different approach. I am not saying more effective mind you , simply different. As far as I am concerned we should learn EVERY approach, which is kind of what they do.

They also center on being different. If everyone is selling red widgits( wow what a sales word that has become) then you sell white widgits.

One of the courses and for the life of me I can not remember which but I believe it is "features and benifits" teaches how to recognise the best approach to use. Decide who you are going to be to the customer. A friend, a mentor, a collegue. Teaches you to be kind of a chameleon depending on the relationship they are looking for. I know I am not being clear here and appologise but I think you may know what I mean anyway HAHA.

For the record I don't believe any system is the best. All we can really do is get as much info as possible and make us the best we can possibly be at what we have chosen to do.

Super, Danny! Thanks. Guess I have some more reading & learning to do in the near future (like I don't already do enough! Ha!)

- Donald

WE learn constantly I guess. Hope I know it all soon though I am tired HA HA

Cold calling is a very effective marketing tool. I setup several programs for small businesses. My programs ranged the gamut from lead generation, lead qualification to sales. Here's a couple of comments about using cold calling, first you really need a marketing plan. Are you going to go for a one shot call and close for a sale the hardest or call for appointment? Are you going to send out a mailing then follow up with a call? Direct mailing typically has returns of around 1 percent and telemarketing is about 3 or 4 times higher. Combining direct mail with calling is the best combination for most businesses. There are variations like mail then call, or call and mail followed by a call to follow up. Most telemarketing and sales books on cold calling IMHO have it flat out wrong. They treat each call as if it were gold They teach the 3 rebuttal technique which in my opinion causes people to hate cold callers. The man who really knows his stuff is Bill Good. The man has a pressure method of prospecting that prevents burnout and stress. For example you call a prospect and they say they aren't interested. How do you handle this? Show vim and vigor and rebut with I can understand how... Wrong. Your up there with people selling shopping club cards. The proper response is Thankyouverymuch... (click)... His book and website Prospecting Your Way to Sales Success are my bibles. He teaches prospecting and marketing in one hard bound book along with supplemental forms and scripts on his site. In the example that started the thread, you would want to find businesses just like that that offer that type of show. He tells you how to develop calling lists. http://www.billgood.com/bills_book/index.html there is no other book you need. The website is geared towards financial sales but he shows in the book how he applied his techniques to dentists, realtors and so on. As a magician you are a skilled professional and performer this book will get you started. For sales there are many books out there find one that has a style you feel comfortable with.

I think you have to gear your sales approach to the market your selling to. XPSS is targeted towards analytical sales involving multiple decision makers who are purchasing expensive equipment and products. This may or may not be suitable to your market. If you go into any decent sized bookstore you will find a lot of books on 'consultative' sales marketing. Personally, I feel it has it uses but it's also pretty manipulative in itself, this isn't XPSS training but it's a well known approach. Sandler Sales Training is quite good and it can the sales of professional services like magic. You might also want to check out a marketing textbook or take a class in sales and marketing at your local college. You'll learn how to define your service, do a survey and figure out if there is a demand for your type of service. I saved myself lots of time and money doing a bit of market research before I started a business. Themagiccafe by the way is a great place to do magic based marketing research, folks here know their stuff.