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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » If You drop A bird from An Airplane (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

daffydoug
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I know this is gonna sound REALLY wierd.. mainly because it is... but my mind travels to strange and unchartered places..(of course, you all know that by now.)

Anyway, I would like to hear your theories on the following query. "If you take a bird, and go up in a plane to an altitude normally reserved for parachuting, and DROP the bird out of the plane, what will be the end result? Will the bird eventually hit the ground with a satisfying splat, or will it just end up safe somewhere of it's own choosing. (Perhaps in the branches of a tree.)

Now in the scenario, the bird has a clear path down, and doesn't get hacked up by propeller blades, or sucked into the jet engines, or eaten by other creatures on the way down or anything of that nature.

Now the question sounds simple at first hearing, but when you really think about it, there are many factors and forces acting on the bird that one needs to consider before coming up with a plausible theory.

The bird in the scenario is a small bird..perhaps a robin or a sparrow.

If you are wondering where the **** I came up with such a dumb question, I was outside recently and looked up to see two birds of the preadator variety with their wings spread out just catching the currents. They were so relaxed and looked like they didn't have a care in the world. They were just gliding in graceful circles at a considerable heigth, when I saw a plane flying over head. It occured to me that if someone were to jump out of the plane and his chute failed, he would come down like a stone heading to earth, screaming at the top of his lungs no doubt, and no doubt and might pass right by the birds on his way to certain death, and the birds would no doubt look at each other as he passed, continuing their graceful glides while saying to one another " Hey Henry, what the **** do you suppose that was?"

Birds are so lucky, aren't they?

Anyway, from there my mind took off in a tangent, and thus you have the question which is the topic.

So now that I have confirmed that I am insane, how about some theories? I'm curious to see if your theories coincide with my own.

Remember, the bird remains unimpeded by any objects interefering with it's descent.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
Mark Rough
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Robins and sparrows are NOT designed for high altitudes. SPLAT! That's my thinking anyway. Nice to know other people have bizarre thoughts from time to time.

Mark
What would Wavy do?
Skip Way
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I'm thinking, "Were those over-the-counter or street drugs you were on?"

:o) Skip
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.

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RiffClown
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I think it might depend on if you let it out of the cage first.
Smile
Rob "Riff, the Magical Clown" Eubank aka RiffClown
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<BR>Magic is not the method, but the presentation.
Daegs
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Realistically let's look at 3 principles which would really be the difference:

1. Bird's wing is designed to transfer downward motion into forward motion the same as a plane. If if you dropped a plane out of another plane, after picking up speed as it drops, it could turn itself upright and even glide to a comfortable finish with no energy. Like hand-gliding.

So let's say there is a ratio, of how much downward motion can be "absorbed" into forward motion.

2. Density of air. Obvisiouly the bird gets more conversion in denser air, and depends on how high they might not be able to catch any air and will just fall.

3. 9.8m/s, the rate at which they will accellerate.


So basically how I see it, is how fast they accelerate through the air that they can't fly in, and whether or not by the time they reach air that they CAN fly in, they are past the velocity which they could successfully turn completely into forward motion thereby stopping themselves from dropping.



I am inclined to say that the bird would be fine.... there are many birds that will "dive-bomb" from a reasonably high altitude(not as high as a plane) and will come down very very fast straight down and then seconds before hitting will spread their wings and use the energy to proppell them back up or at least horizontally...


I don't think that a bird could pick up enough momentum to cause their wings to fail once they got to a reasonable height.


A pilot will help me here, but I think that planes have reduced max speed up until something like 14,000 feet because if they hit a bird going too fast it would shatter the window or hurt the plane, so I guess that there are no birds past 11,000-14,000 feet.... so then its a simple math problem once you figure out the ratio at which bird's wings work at.

I think that any height that a human could successfully parchute jump from, a bird could do MUCH better than they.
vinsmagic
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Daffydoug
I like the way you think.............................

I have a question myself
if I was to dig a hole from here to CHINA, and I went in feet first
, the question would I emerge feet first in China up side down???????
vinny
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daffydoug
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Har har har!!!!
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
Cliffg37
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No one has talked about speed yet.

If you jump out of a moving car, lets say at 30 mph, and your best running speed is 15 mph, you would certainly fall, and probably injure yourself. That is if you tried to hit the ground running. If you tuck and roll it can be done by a trained stuntman.

Now, up in the sky, these birds have a maximum flight speed of somewhere areound 20-30 depending on the size and type of the bird. To stay comfortably in the air, a plane has to keep speed, I think a small plane doesn't have to go so fast, but a large plane nedds to be above 100 mph or faster, again depending on size. I think the birds big problem would be the shock of sudden deceleration being tossed from a plane. I don't know if it could breathe properly.

Why not test this yourself? Get a skydiver with a camera and throw the bird and film him. If the camera man and the bird come down together (until he pulls his chute) the bird is proabably dead. If he glides at some point, he lives another day.
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ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2005-07-19 05:43, vinsmagic wrote:
Daffydoug
I like the way you think.............................

I have a question myself
if I was to dig a hole from here to CHINA, and I went in feet first
, the question would I emerge feet first in China up side down???????
vinny


If you didn't melt passing through the molten core of the earth, you'd find yourself climbing UP the hole upside down! If you could make it all the way without turning around or passing out than yes you'd come out of the hole upside down.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
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Alniner
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An African or European swallow?
Skål

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daffydoug
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Quote:
On 2005-07-19 10:36, Cliffg37 wrote:
No one has talked about speed yet.

If you jump out of a moving car, lets say at 30 mph, and your best running speed is 15 mph, you would certainly fall, and probably injure yourself. That is if you tried to hit the ground running. If you tuck and roll it can be done by a trained stuntman.

Now, up in the sky, these birds have a maximum flight speed of somewhere areound 20-30 depending on the size and type of the bird. To stay comfortably in the air, a plane has to keep speed, I think a small plane doesn't have to go so fast, but a large plane nedds to be above 100 mph or faster, again depending on size. I think the birds big problem would be the shock of sudden deceleration being tossed from a plane. I don't know if it could breathe properly.

Why not test this yourself? Get a skydiver with a camera and throw the bird and film him. If the camera man and the bird come down together (until he pulls his chute) the bird is proabably dead. If he glides at some point, he lives another day.


Now you've hit upon my thoughts. I was thinking that the scenario would be like this:

1; bird is dropped and instinctively begins to flap his wings. However this is futile since the air is so thin. there is nothing for the birds wings to move.

2: Bird, being a "bird brain' doesn't realize this and continues to flap like mad...for a couple of minutes. BUT, the air is so thin that the hardily flapping bird can't breathe. The fact that he is flapping his wings makes this even worse because it increases his need for air.

3: Flapping bird soon passes out for lack of oxygen.

4: Passed out brain dead bird discontinues wing flapping and continues to succumb to gravity and plummet hopelessly.

5: Passed out bird eventually meets ground and ..SPLAT!!!!
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
magicalaurie
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Good question, Vinny.
RiffClown
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Highest Flying Birds
The highest altitude recorded for a bird is 11,300 m. (37,000 ft.), for a Ruppell’s vulture (Gyps rueppellii), which collided with a commercial aircraft over Abidjan, Côte d’Ivoire, on November 29, 1973.


Typical Skydiving altitude is 15,000 The air is not so thin as to prevent flight or breathing or else skydivers would suffer from the thinned air. I personally don't think the bird would "just fly off" but would flap about, slowing its descent until it found a height in which it could fly comfortably about 80%-90% of the time. Life goes on.
Rob "Riff, the Magical Clown" Eubank aka RiffClown
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daffydoug
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What would really be cool is to attach a camera to the bird so we could get a .... uh,.... pardon the pun,.."bird's eye view" of the scenerio, and watch as the earth approaches and the bird does his thing...whatever that happens to be.
Shoot, might even make National Geographic.. or the Disney Channel...you never know.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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