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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » Cups and Balls - Aluminum or Copper? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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phranQ
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Denmark
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I want to get started with the Cups and Balls. I am planning on buying the Morrissey Cups - are they of good quality?

Also, (and I know that I risk starting a minor war), should I buy the aluminum or copper cups?

Smile
Jones
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Liverpool, England
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If you are just starting, then yes, you'll find the Morrisey cups good enough. I used Morrisey cups for years quite happily.

Copper or aluminum? The aluminum cups are coated and the coating can chip. I don't know if the copper cups are coated or solid. If they are solid, I expect they'll need regular polishing to stay shiny. Personally, I would go for which ever set is heaviest.

Ian Smile
Callin
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Portland, Oregon
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I'm pretty sure the copper cups are coated, too. Morrisey offers a combo set also where one of the cups is gimmicked as a chop cup. Personally, I would avoid this. I bought a Morrisey combo set years ago and found that the gimmick raised alot of unneccesary suspicion that distracted from the effect.

I love both the chop cup and the cups and balls, but I think you would be best served by using ungimmicked cups for the cups and balls.

Thanks,
Richard Green
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Apprentice
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Why do you suggest going for the heavier set?

Does it help a beginner alot?

I'm new to magic, I haven't gotten into cups and balls but will soon and will be picking up the Morrisey cups as well.

Apprentice

What are your top choices for learning the cups and balls routine?

Where should I start?

List some suggestions for Books and Videos please.
Geoff Weber
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Washington DC
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Michael Ammar's Complete cups and balls book and videos cover this quite extensively... Mark Wilson's course also has an very nice routine for starting out with.. I would also be certain to get Bobo's modern coin magic, because you will need a lot of sleight of hand work to do cups and balls... retention vanishes, drop vanishes, etc..
Callin
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Portland, Oregon
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No true study of the cups and balls would be complete without looking at the Dai Vernon routine published in the Dai Vernon Book of Magic. Also, I would suggest looking at Michael Ammar's routine in his book.

Thanks,
Richard Green
Callin's House of Magic
The Pacific Northwest's Largest and Oldest Magic Shop. Established 1953.
Visit us at www.callinsmagic.com
Ask me about the New Jerry Andrus Movie
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Jones
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Liverpool, England
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Quote:
On 2002-10-23 11:31, Apprentice wrote:
Why do you suggest going for the heavier set?

Does it help a beginner alot?


Certain moves are impossible with lightweight cups. Also, if the cups are very light then the slightest touch can knock them over, so extra care must be taken.
Heavy cups have a satisfying ring to them when stacked and nested and they just have a "feel" to them that lightweights don't.

Ian
phranQ
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Denmark
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Thanks for the advice. I think I'll go for the heavier (and more expensive) copper cups.

I have the book "The Magic of Michael Ammar" which includes a Cups & Balls routine. Would that be a good place for beginners to start?

Smile

Oh, and by the way, is that "Dai Vernon Wand Spin" tough to master?
Brian Proctor
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Somewhere
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I want to point out that alluminum cups reflect alot. So you may be in danger of flashing what is actually in a cup. To the best of my knowledge, many copper cups do not have that much reflection. Smile
Jones
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Quote:
On 2002-10-24 02:03, phranQ wrote:
I have the book "The Magic of Michael Ammar" which includes a Cups & Balls routine. Would that be a good place for beginners to start?


No decent routine could be described as easy. C&B routines must be worked at - for me, more than anything I've ever attempted.
Ammar's routine is made up of distinct phases, eg. balls appear or balls collect together, so you can easily break it down and work on each phase seperately.
You are going to need time but you'll benefit enormously learning a good C&B routine. When you're finished, you'll have improved ALL of your magic, as well as having added something wonderful to your repertoire.

The answer to your question is yes, get working the Ammar routine ASAP. You won't regret it!

Ian

Quote:
On 2002-10-24 02:05, phranQ wrote:
Oh, and by the way, is that "Dai Vernon Wand Spin" tough to master?


The spin itself is tricky to learn but easy to perform. Once you catch on to how the wand moves around the hand, you'll be doing it in no time. Using the spin to vanish a ball is another matter - much more work. Once mastered, however, you'll have a truly beautiful vanish which brings gasps from an audience.
Apprentice
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Excellent, a lot of tips from everyone on this thread.

I've never heard of the wand spin but if you can do a vanish with it I'm definitely checking that one out. And thanks for the tips on purchasing a heavier copper set of cups and balls. Would getting a set of Chop Cup (1 chop cup and 2 regular cups) and Balls make the routines easier to perform. Will it eliminate some of the need for sleight of hand for certain routines?

Thoughts?
dekerivers
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I have purchased a couple different cups and balls videos and of all the routines I think Ammar's is the most magical. However, there is one move that I've seen and don't like. I think It's called the Charlie Miller move. where the ball appear to penetrate the top of the cups using a "drop" move. Maybey it's only because I know to look for the palmed ball, but this in my eyes just gives away the fact that there's an extra ball. I also like Carl Andrews two cup routine for it's simplicity, but he still uses the Charlie Miller move. Does this look bad to anyone else? Smile
Gerald
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Texas
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phranQ,
You will probably own more than one set of cups if this great classic becomes a permanent staple of your repertoire. Starting out with an aluminum set might be okay, but if you plan to buy one set, consider a set of heavy copper or brass. IMO, weight makes them easier to control and they have a "healthier feel" in the hands. You might want to look at James P. Riser’s site: http://www.jamesriser.com/Cups/SelectingCups.html for a comprehensive treatise on selecting a set of cups.

Good luck!

Gerald
what
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Lehi, UT, USA
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If you are just starting out in the cups & balls, almost any set of cups should work.
My first set of cups were $0.69 cent nestable plastic cups that I bought at the local grocery store. My first cups & balls routine was right out of Mark Wilsons Complete Course of Magic book. The routine is simple, but surprisingly well received. Last year, I received a Morissay aluminum chop cup combo set and really enjoy the Mendoza cups & balls by John Mendoza. I definitely enjoy the set, and the routine by Mendozza is awesome!!
I will probably look to a heavier set next year and work with some of Michael Ammars material.
I spend alot of time working my cups & balls and find it to be my favorite magical routine.

Good luck,

Mike
Magic is fun!!!
atkinsod
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VA
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I have a reference guide to the cups & balls at my website (http://magicref.tripod.com). It lists many of the videos, books, and products available for the cups & balls. The only downside is the list may make you more confused because there is so much available!

In the $50 and under Price Range: Bazar de Magia offers an Aluminum set for a mere $14, probably a better buy than the plastic sets. The Morrissey sets are decent at $20, about the same price as the Icle Pickle Aluminum cups. A nice cup as seen on James Riser's pages (http://www.jamesriser.com) is the Harries Magic Aluminum cup, at $41 (http://www.harriesmagic.com). You can also get Bazar de Magia and Morrissey Copper sets in the $40 range. Copper will hold up a bit better than the aluminum. Also, you can get the Harries magic Bosco cup in Copper for $72.

Doug A.
Spider
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Doug's overview is good (Hi, Doug!) if you want a set of commercial cups. However, if it has not occurred to you, about 80% of the moves available with commercial cup sets can be done with coffee cups from your cupboard.

Ammar has a nice routine in his COMPLETE CUPS & BALLS done with three coffee cups. There is also a good routine for such cups in Bruce Elliott's CLASSIC SECRETS OF MAGIC.

I use Corelleware (tm) cups when I want coffee cups for magic. They come in a variey of sizes, shapes, and colors, and you can buy them "open stock" in a Wal-Mart or in Corelle specialty stores along interstate highways in Factory Outlet strip plazas. They are also much less breakable than most crockery cups, but are heavy (like the copper commercial cups mentioned above), unlike the lightweight unbreakable melamine cups. My Corelles are white with blue rings on the mouth, and have a pleasing swirled taper on them.

Aluminum cups are lighter and dent easier than copper, brass, silver, or steel. Copper and brass are more expensive, and have the propensity to tarnish with heavy use. Silver and steel are prohibitively expensive for a trick you might not even like.

There are even wooden ones available:

http://www.magictricks.com/closeup/cballwood.htm
http://www.abra4magic.com/magic-tricks/p1043.html
http://www.magicstor.com/files/magic_tricks_cups.htm

Take Doug's advice and read the Riser article on choosing a cup if you want a commercial set of cups.

If you get a decent set of cups and learn one really good routine with it, all of your magic will be better for it. Cups & balls is great training in misdirection, timing, and palming. You won't believe you can get away with it, but you can. Learning to control your own eyes, and not to hesitate during any loads, palms, etc., are the keys.

Enjoy your C & B set.

Jon Smile
KingStardog
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Don't discount the combo sets too quickly. There are moves that can be done with one of these sets that leave folks scratching their heads. Your first set should however, not be a combo.

The combo has the advantage of giving a shorter chop effect, if you don't wish to do a full set. Also you will have one less item to pack. Just a few thoughts.
...think not that all wisdom is in your school. You may have studied other paths,but, it is important to remember that no matter who you are or where you come from, there is always more to learn.
mastermagician91
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BTW ... to the first post ... I reccomend the aluminium ... you probably already bought your cups and balls ... but I just wanted to say.
"Magic is not always magic...but the impossible is always possible" - Ricky Booska
Spider
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I have opened this discussion here and several other forums. Here is what I have been told, in summary:

1. Magic Inc.'s own Aluminum Cups, $22.50
2. Magic Inc.'s Combo set, $30.00
3. Bazar di Magia Cups, in Aluminum, Copper, or Brass (around $15-$25?)
4. Bazar di Magia Combo set, in Aluminum, Copper, or Brass (around $25-40?)
5. Morrissey Cups in Aluminum or Brass ($20 - $40) - I am told these don't have indentations for sitting the balls on the inverted cup (?)
6. Morrissey Combo in Aluminum or Brass ($35 - $60) -- Same indentation problem?

Some have praised Combo cups for their versatility, and others have trashed them for the difference in weight between the standard cups and the gimmicked cup.

My oldest budget set is "Magic Inc.'s own" in aluminum, and I still like them. They are rather light, and will dent slightly if dropped on a table edge or hit sharply with a wand. However, they will hold a tennis ball tightly enough for time misdirection, releasing the ball with a slight lean forward toward specs of the base of the cup and a little shake. They are more the traditional "ice cream cone" shape rather than the newer Fox cup shape.

If anyone would like to address any of the above sets, pro or con, or add another suggestion to the list, please jump in!

Jon
FZandura
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North Carolina
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I just recently bought a Morrissey combo set, and so far am very happy with it. The shop that I bought the set from had two sets left in stock, both of which were recently received by the store. The inside of the chop cup was different between the two sets. One was flat at the base of the cup, while the other rounded. (almost like if you shaved the bottom off of a regular cup, and placed it inside another bottom side up). I found this to be a little odd that the same manufacturer would have looking two different ways) I got the 'flat' one because I felt it more closely looked like the insides of the other cups. So, just an FYI if anyone is looking at Morrissay cups and likes/dislikes one verses the other.
Smile
F. Zandura
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