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Roslyn
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Hi all,

After reading the last post by Zanzini it seems that the idea is not the same as Steve Bakers.

In the Zanzini version it reads more like an upside down burning rope escape with the rope that he is hanging from being set alight.

I would however suggest that the name "Tug Of War" not be used. Forgetting the legal rubbish (because I find that particularly boring) this other routine doesn't have any of the tug of war aspect. Therefore calling it a "tug of war upside down escape" would be wrong.

In my first post I asked whether the escape would be done close to the ground so the tug of war bit would be still involved. But going on what has been said previously by Zanzini this is not so, am I right in thinking that?

I would also like to ask this. Do you think anyone will care to see someone escape from (in the audiences mind) a simple rope tie whilst hanging from a burning rope? I ask this because surely the audience believe the 100' rope tie, the sj or cuffs and chains to be more difficult than just a short piece of rope? Obviously this may or may not be true, but it is what the audience thinks that matters isn't it, and many have seen all of those things done hanging from a burning rope.

Just a few thoughts. Sorry that the post is all over the place, but I type as I think and am too lazy to edit my post.

Take care,

Ros
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GreatWizardoftheEast
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Pardon me, I don't have a museum in which to find obscure manuscripts, as you do. Yes I gave you a hard time. You are the same annonymous phantom with no profile, no real name that pops up on this board every so often to start trouble. Your methods and MO are transparent. But we all know who you are.
Harold White
The Amazing Zanzini
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The only problem I see here GreatWizardoftheEast, is YOU! I will no lonegr respond to your empty mind of thoughts!

The Amazing Zanzini
thorndyke
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Hmmm, hanging from a rope upside down which is then lit on fire,,,with audience members tugging at a rope right under the burning rope....
Lets see that video!
The Amazing Zanzini
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Pardon? Could you point out where I said audience members were tugging on the rope after suspended? Think not! It appears you have never seen any version of the "Tug of War"! Because if you had, even Steve Baker's, you would clearly see that Mr. Baker escaped after the audience had already secured him and let go of the rope! I would suggest you go back and read what I have been saying! Yes, there are trouble makers here, and your on e of them!

The Amazing Zanzini
Harry Murphy
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Amazing Z, call it what you will! I doubt if you or Mr. Baker will ever cross paths or share the same audiences. Mr. Baker has advertised his rope tie as the “tug of war” since he started performing. Houdini never advertised nor called any of his rope ties by the title “tug of war”. The term was used in a book about him as a descriptor to help the reader understand the action that was occurring during a phase of his escape.

I have not found any reference wherein the author and/or performer actually titled a rope tie the “tug of war” even though I see the term mentioned in descriptions of action.

Still we are splitting hairs here. It has been pointed out, documented, and accepted that a rope, wrist, tie escape actually titled “The Tug of War”, was advertised and performed by Mr. Baker since the late 50’s. It has been and remains a signature piece for Mr. Baker.

Interestingly, central to the escape is the tug of war that two spectators have to insure the knots are tight. Thus, the title of the bit.

It makes me wonder why you would similarly title you escape when the tug of war is not a central element. You have several elements that could be equally focused on for a title. I think that if you wanted to make this escape a signature piece (and it could very well be!) to have a booker remember you that you might think of something other than tug of war.

If I were a booker and someone told me to get that guy that did the tug of war rope escape, I would be calling Mr. Baker. That is what it means to have a signature effect and your name associated with it.

Other than that, call it what you will! I suspect that the stunt will never see the light of day in performance and the whole thread was written just to stir up a bit of controversy.
But then I could be wrong!
The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!
Kondini
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This is going around in circles.
With wording unworthy of and from, pro escapists.

A quick check on profiles will tell the wheat from the chaff, I think if this is done the invisible will go and the worthy remain.

Lets try!! To keep this thread cival.

If anyone wants to fight then this is not the place,, it takes knowledge of this craft to debate it and stupidity to destroy it.
thorndyke
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It was not an unreasonable assumption that your audience participators would be tugging at the rope as you were suspended - this is what a tug of war is after all. If it was a bit of byplay while securing you (before releasing yourself by your favorite method) that wasn't as easily infered from your posts. Either way I would love to see a video of your performance of this, which would clear up any misunderstanding of what was being done.
In your post on July 31st, you state you are 'planning this as an upside down hanging "tug of war" with suspension line set on fire'. In your Aug 1st post you mention the upside down burning rope tug of war escape again. With these two posts I feel that I have a right to be curious as to how it will look when actualy done. Lets see that video one day.
I have not seen Mr. Baker's Tug of War escape, but I have seen other rope escapes done by escape artists and magicians who supplemented their acts with escapes.
Kevin Connolly
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We all know that "Houdini On Magic" was written by Walter Gibson and Morris Young, don't we? I read a few things on Houdini, but I don't recall him ever using the the term "Tug Of War" to describe an escape or illusion.

Good Luck,
Kevin
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The Amazing Zanzini
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You need to go back and read Houdini On Magic! The term as in "tug of war" is used in describing Houdini's routine. You people are something else!

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Kevin Connolly
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Quote:
On 2005-08-01 15:32, The Amazing Zanzini wrote:
You need to go back and read Houdini On Magic! The term as in "tug of war" is used in describing Houdini's routines. You people are something else!

The Amazing Zanzini


A term to describe something is not the same as the name of it. We call the WTC, the Chinese Water Torture Cell, not a tank of water. No matter. Houdini never used the term.

Hope this helps you better understand.

Good Luck,
Kevin
Please visit my website.
www.houdinihimself.com

Always looking buy or trade for original Houdini, Hardeen and escape artist items. I'm interested in books, pitchbooks and ephemera. Email [email]hhoudini@optonline.net[/email]
The Amazing Zanzini
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You have a reading disorder, that's ok! I can except that!

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Roslyn
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Can I have a few moments to get a few things straight that are confusing me.

First off, Houdini On Magic was written by Walter Gibson and Morris Young right? Therefore the term "tug of war" is their way for describing the Houdini trick mentioned by Zanzini in his opening post and not the actual name of the trick itself.

Secondly, if my first statement is right, Houdini didn't actually perform an escape called the "tug of war rope tie". Gibson and Young only used the term to describe it to the reader.

Thirdly. If there is no escape called the "tug of war rope tie" appearing in any text before Steve Bakers it must stand to reason that he invented it.

Finally. The escape described by Zanini at the very beginning was a comedy routine that was actually performed by Houdini and is nothing like Steves routine. The second escape is almost identical to Steves routine and the third routine descibed by Zanzini is a mutation of both Steve's (the serious presentation) and Houdini's (the actuall method used) rope escape only performed hanging from a burning rope.

If all of the above is true and I have understood all the posts written here, then there is no reason for argument.

Zanzini's routine is different from Steve's and Houdini's, therefore he hasn't stolen anything. But, it is just another of many rope escapes being done right now. Kind of boring and dull if you ask me.

Now if you're after a rope escape I suggest you take a look at the thread covering David Straitjacket's adventures in China. Now THAT'S a rope escape for the 21st century not a re-working of an escape that was used in 1958 by the Worlds most famous ea after Houdini (who's method is used).

To rehash KSD, what's wrong with doing something new?

Ros
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Steve Baker - Mr.Escape
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Ros,

Thank you for all your posts on this subject,especially the one above....
You saved me a lot of typing!
You made all the points I wanted to! THANK YOU

I want thank all of you who spoke up in my support! THANK YOU ONE AND ALL

This thread was started to provoke me,and it worked,but all of you turned it
around on the provoker!.... And for that I will be ever thankful!

One last thing,The method used in my TUG-of-WAR rope tie... IS MINE!!

Thanks to you all,

Steve

One last thing...
Roslyn
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Steve,

No worries buddy Smile

Take care,

Ros
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Harry Murphy
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Great summary Ros! In fact, I think that everything that needs to be said here has been said. Let’s move on.
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