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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
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On 2005-08-26 20:18, Black Magic wrote: Not that many years ago magicians like Bill Neff, Dr. Silkini and others used to do a special magic show called a spook show. This show was performed in a theater with monster movies and was suppose to scare the yell out of you - as the promotion used to read. Magicians may be partly to blame for the “bad press” religion has for magic. Kellar used the little devils along with the Great Herman and followed by Blackstone and Dante. To look at magic and magicians through the eyes of religion. Or Sorcerer and witchcraft. There are two basic ways to look at this and many magicians and the public get them confused. (Their is the storybook Sorcerer or wizard). And the Sorcerer that is connected through religious history to witchcraft. This is thought of today as a religion and part of what was part of some Pagan religions. Magicians like Robert-Houdin and others to this day seem to once and a while get caught between the fight of church people and the struggle of religious good and evil. Or the war of Christianity against Pagan religions throughout the ages. Magicians have used this in the advertising of their shows and they get caught up in this just because we do magic and there is a lot of religious written propaganda against magic.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Waters Inner circle 2508 Posts |
Great point Bish!
We've got to be careful (that is if you care). Some of our effects/performances are so powerful they are frightening. I want to be intriguing, but I don't want them to have to call their priest, etc. Case in point: (years ago) I had invited a friend of mine over to our house. I hadn't seen him in years, and I had become much more serious about magic during that time. I started off doing some light non-threatening effects, but as time passed and it became dark I decided to take advantage of the opportunity. My wife and I had some candles lit, and I decided to "go for it" (knowing that he knew me well enough to not get frightened). I did collector's workshop "Clock of San Marcos", which doesn't sound scarey... However, when it's late and a pen startes moving on it's own (placed in the center of clock like circle of cards), it can be a little "moving" (read: bone chilling). I could tell that he was very disturbed (having not seen me in some time, he seemed to think I had taken an interest in REAL DARK ARTS). He could not be consoled, and I explained that it was merely an illusion of sorts, but it took some time to convince him that I had not sold my soul for the ability to move a pen with the power of my mind. What a web we weave.... Cheers, Faustus (I meant Sean Waters) |
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abc Inner circle South African in Taiwan 1081 Posts |
People will find the devil in any thing if they want to. So just by the way I have taken a deck of cards to a prayer meeting because some of the members of the congregation actually like magic and I did some card effects for them from time to time and they gave me some kids parties and corporate gigs from time to time. Now I know the house of God is not a market and you could have found everything wrong with what I did but these people were first my friends and then my customers. So if your friend has a problem with you doing magic then let him be your friend first and then your audience if he later chooses to do so.
Main problem I have with the whole idea though is that this is the kind of thinking that is ruining the world. There is just no substitute for logic thought. Let me say that I do not think magic is a God given talent. It is an acquired art that anyone can learn. Just as most other things in life. There are very few things that not almost anyone can do with the right amount of practice or training. But judging people, who have acquired a certain skill level in something, in the name of God is a bigger sin than most. We need more followers and less gods. Now the ability to think logically about things ....that is a God given talent that most people apparently do not have the ability to acquire through practise and training. Such a pity. |
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Phil Thomas Inner circle Newark, Ohio 1117 Posts |
Let them be wrong. Politely excuse yourself and tell them you are late for your ritualistic goat sacrifice to the Dark Lord.
Sorry. Couldn't resist. You can't change the minds of these people. Just apologize for offending them, and move on. No big deal. I have had similar instances happen to me when I showed some magic to my pastor. I did reveal a few routine secrets to him and fortunately, it opened his eyes to a new perspective and now he does magic himself! Go figure. :cheers: Phil
"If we lose the sense of the mysterious, life is no more than a snuffed out candle."
Albert Einstein |
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dpe666 Inner circle 2895 Posts |
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On 2005-08-30 19:53, Phil Thomas wrote: Why? It isn't your fault they were "offended". |
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abc Inner circle South African in Taiwan 1081 Posts |
I don't want to cause trouble or have people dislike me too much but if I show you a trick and I use the word trick here for a reason and you think I sold my soul to the devil for the ability to perform black magic then I am offended not you. Like Criss Angel says: "some of what I do is a real body mind connection some is just an illusion it is up to you to decide which is which"
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Nosher Loyal user 261 Posts |
In 1584 the author of The Discoverie of Witchcraft attempted to prove that the devil did not have the power to grant magical abilities to human beings and thus there were no such thing as witches, only hapless old crones wrongly accused.
It seems that critical thinking has diminished somewhat in the intervening four centuries.
Escapemaster-in-chief from all sorts of houdingplaces - Finnegans Wake
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Xiero New user Michigan 70 Posts |
This whole debate is something that hits at home for me...
When I decided to begin practicing magic, my girlfriend of all people didn't support me. She's a "hardcore Christian" as I like to call her. When I asked her why, she told me that it was freakish and not natural (hence a similar argument that everyone else is getting). I agreed to not do magic around her and to not study around her. This hampers my ability to learn and practice immensely, however. We may as well be married since all of our free time is spent together... Well, the other night while at the bar we frequent, however infrequent our visits may be, I got on the subject with the bouncer about magic. He started asking me questions about Criss Angel and David Blaine and actually wondered if Angel worshipped the devil because of his dark look. I explained to him how Angel actually is a Christian (the bouncer is a "hardcore Christian" as well) and that he has no ties to the devil. Well, he then wanted to see some magic tricks. I explained that I couldn't do any tricks around my girlfriend, and that if she walked away at any point I would do something for him. She had overheard all of this and was upset, but it's not my fault she has narrow views on the subject. Overall, he was impressed by the only two card tricks I was able to complete, but I don't know how I can sway her view away from thinking magic is "freakish". On another point, however, she had visited a bar that just opened down the road a few months back and there was a magician performing there. She came back and told me about it and sounded completely enamored with what he was doing... this is one of the reasons I started doing magic. The others being that I like to be the center of attention, love acting, and have always had an interest in magic... but that's another story . In short: When this type of thing hits at home, it can be fairly overwhelming, but there really isn't a whole lot you can do to change someone's mind on it. Eric |
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scorch Inner circle 1480 Posts |
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On 2005-08-31 08:04, Xiero wrote: On a personal level, I will caution you that when women get controlling about something like this, it's probably not the only thing that she will try to control you about. You probably don't have any business dating somebody whose spiritual views conflict with your own. It's a recipe for disaster. But yet again, the problem with advice is that it is usually wasted on the young... There are a number of prominent Christian magicians that you might want to turn her onto. Brother John Hamman was a monk! His work would be great to expose her to in order to try to get her interest and comfort level up. And if you perform for her, try to make it visual type stuff that is light and appealing. Bro. John Hamman's Twins would be a great one. Hold off for a while on doing anything too dark or too strong, like mentalism effects. Definitely don't perform Deep Astonishment for her! |
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
I agree that you will have to "walk on eggshells here". Sadly, the most mind blowing effects are the ones you will have to leave out..if it's TOO mind blowing, she will retaliate. If you show her the weaker/milder stuff, on the otherhand, she will remain unimpressed. So you're basicly stuck.
People like her make me just want to scream.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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xformer7 Veteran user Central NJ 309 Posts |
Xiero...She seems to do quite a bit of bar-hopping for a "hardcore Christian. Take heed of Scorch's advice.
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ursusminor Elite user Norway 443 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-08-26 01:04, tommy wrote: Exactly, and that means that prostitutes, gamblers, thieves and murderers are like the vast majority of us, they like to play cards from time to time. Bjørn Quote:
On 2005-08-26 01:04, tommy wrote: Never heard that one before, where does it originate? If anyone tried that story on me I'd say: "I've got a MUCH better story", and tell them of private John Middleton, or "The Gentleman-Soldier's Prayerbook". If bychance you haven't heard it, it's in Hugard's Encyclopedia of Card Tricks" Bjørn
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them
pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened." - Winston Churchill" |
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Ross W Inner circle UK 1779 Posts |
As a member of the Church of England, known as a a fairly liberal branch of Protestantism, I find this whole debate startling. That *anybody* in 2005 can believe a card trick is the work of Satan is just ridiculous.
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ursusminor Elite user Norway 443 Posts |
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On 2005-09-06 11:00, ross welford wrote: I fully agree, but I have experienced that myself, once. Bjørn
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them
pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened." - Winston Churchill" |
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Xiero New user Michigan 70 Posts |
Yes, xformer... I agree that she does. That's a hard one to explain off according to her... lol... anywho.
Scorch, thanks for the advice. I fully agree with you on that. Me, being Agnostic, and her being a Christian, really does not bode too well most of the time. We are usually at odds about, well, everything. That's another time and another place though. She's still just as adamant about being against magic, but at least she is talking about it now. She refused to even discuss the topic prior to my first post on here. The only other option is to break up with her for my art and my dream! Which is more important? Hmmm.... Eric |
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edh Inner circle 4698 Posts |
Xiero, If she is that adamnant about magic then she will not support your art or your dream!
Life is to short not to have dreams.
Magic is a vanishing art.
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Xiero New user Michigan 70 Posts |
Agreed, edh... my art and my dreams are both the most important thing to me.
Eric |
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cardone Special user 860 Posts |
Anybody read the book Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan ? It is very interesting and a very important book.
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scorch Inner circle 1480 Posts |
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On 2005-09-06 15:21, Xiero wrote: At least you seem sensible enough to realize that she isn't going to change, anymore than you are about to drop down on your knees and start believing in Jesus. And you wouldn't be breaking up with her only for your magic, would you? You'd be breaking up with her because you know that the two of you are just not a good match. If you ask me, life's too short to spend your time with the wrong gal. |
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Xiero New user Michigan 70 Posts |
Scorch,
Of course I wouldn't be breaking up with her only for my magic. I still have time to practice and perform while being with her. I just wish she would see the light, so to speak. I realize she isn't going to change, however... and I'm not one to try and change someone. Here's the kicker: she would be the one to break up with me over doing magic, and has already said so. Life IS too short to spend your time with the wrong gal, and she's right in many ways for me... but in many other ways... well, you get the gist. It's a problem of weighing pros and cons I suppose, as a friend put it to me. LOL... geesh, this thread kinda changed from being about religious opposition to my personal life.... sorry all! Eric |
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