|
|
|
|||
| Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next] | ||||||||||
weepinwil Inner circle USA 3828 Posts 
|
Actually religion, art, science, and magic once were closely connected. With the fading of superstition and urbanization of civilization the artist no longer needed to cast the spell in his painting so he now struggles to make a living; With the publishing of Darwin's Origin of the species, science and religion made a split into two different directions. People choose to follow a path not realizing they were much closer connected just a few hundred years ago.
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
|
|||||||||
Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2005-08-02 01:09, The Magical Duo wrote: And thus the cycle of intolerence continues
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
|
|||||||||
Vandy Grift Inner circle Milwaukee 3504 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2005-08-02 11:06, Payne wrote: It certainly does.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
|
|||||||||
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2005-08-02 06:27, jiggyjer wrote: And so many of them claim to have read "erdnase" too, though obviously have not understood the introduction.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts
|
I read a quote in an auto racing magazine, where they interview a driver every issue and ask the same questions. The last question is, "If you were King, what would you add or take away?"
He answered, "I would ELIMINATE all religions. The world would be far more peaceful."
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
|
|||||||||
|
Reis O'Brien Inner circle Seattle, WA 2467 Posts
|
Working in a magic shop in an area of Chicago with a high rate of tourist traffic, I see all kinds. And, yes, every now and then, I get some nut-job throwing a little fire-n-brimstone at me. Naturally enough, it's usually when I either do something weird (rising cards) or something that has a gambling feel to it (ultimate 3 card monte). For some reason, they immediately feel I possess the powers of the devil.
So I always tell them, "Right. I possess all the dark powers of the devil and I use the wicked and nefarious powers to do CARD TRICKS!?" Come on! If I really had these alleged powers, I'd be controlling governments or making a zombie army, not using a stripper deck to separate the reds from blacks! |
|||||||||
|
bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts
|
When we had a magic shop at Old Chicago amusement park we used to get a lot of religious people walk through giving out this or that. They would be dressed like bums and street people. Or dressed in a tie and suit. One day a very tall man came in dressed in a suit with some kind of a badge on him from some Chicago church.
It wasn't busy and he came in and tried to strike up a conversation with us. in his hand were pamphlets from his church. My guess is that he wanted to get the conversation going about magic - tell us that we could be doomed - or that it is linked to the devil etc. His opening line was funny. "He said Do you boys sell real magic". I said back to him what? He said again this time reaching for his church material - "Do you boys sell real magic? And if you did what would it cost? (One of the things one of the guys used to do in the shop was to light flash paper from a cigarette - the sheet of flash paper and the cig was in his hand palmed this time he had in his hand two full sheets of pro glow flash paper - this would produce a large flame) As the man said "what would it cost?" The magician beside me lit the flash paper - and produced a huge flame out of thin air and yelled YOUR SOUL! The guy dropped everything and ran like H*ll... We laughed like crazy and we never saw any member of that church again handing out pamphlets in the mall. The church called the mall office to complain but nothing came of it and after the story got around it was laughed at by the other employees of the mall. And flash paper sales went up for that month.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
|||||||||
Chessmann Inner circle 4247 Posts
|
Again, most of this boils down to education. I am a fundamentalist Christian who loves magic. I learned magic in a healthy context. Some Christians have only learned to see magic in one way, and until their objections are dealt with they will continue to see magic in only one context. I would also argue that Christians who are against magic represent a much smaller number of people than some would like to portray it, but certainly, it does happen.
There have been a few posts about Christian intolerance. Seemingly the posters do not seem to understand that their arguments can be turned around and used against them with no difficulty. This gets us nowhere, does it? The old, "I'm right, therefore you are wrong, and not only are you wrong, you are crazy AND wrong...." doesn't really change anything regardless of which 'side' it comes from. We would do better, as has been said, to talk to each other.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
|
|||||||||
|
Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts
|
It isn't MAGIC we do here... we do tricks and puzzles and try to be entertainers. I think we should shut down this thread before lightning strikes us all
 And yes, that is a little DEVIL on my shoulder 
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
|
|||||||||
doug brewer V.I.P. 1142 Posts
|
I thought that was a parrot
|
|||||||||
Ross W Inner circle UK 1779 Posts
|
Satan comes in many disguises...
|
|||||||||
|
Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2005-08-02 13:50, Chessmann wrote: The problem all boils down to Belief. Belief can be a very stubborn and pig-headed thing, on both sides of the fence. Or as Rufus in the Movie Dogma so aptly pointed pointed out, "I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier."
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
|
|||||||||
|
bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2005-08-02 13:50, Chessmann wrote: Well, when a preacher pointed his finger at me in the middle of the church service and said I was the son of the devil - is that saying that the preacher is uneducated in knowing about hypnosis and magician theater magic? I think not. Hypnosis and theater magic have existed along with any may have originally came from a religious background and most likely are historically connected. Plus religious leaders have quite a lot of schooling and education. Plus there are today lots and lots of magicians that do gospel magic. Including such greats as Andre Kole. To say that a religious leader is uneducated about theater magic and hypnosis - because hypnosis is used today and has been used in religious service throughout history - as the healing! Now I ask why would a highly educated religious leader do such a thing?
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
|||||||||
|
KC Special user Utah 571 Posts
|
Living in Utah, I associate with many religious people, predominantly members of the Latter-Day Saint faith (LDS, aka Mormons) as well as other Christian based religions.
As far as card magic goes, I've never really encountered any religious opposition here. One of my old roommates, not a magician, but knew some card tricks got opposition, but it was due to his personality and (lack of) ability to do card magic. Card gambling games like poker are frowned upon among the church member. It is also encouraged that the LDS members avoid attending hypnosis shows for entertainment purposes. The reasoning being that while under hypnosis, the subject loses (some) ability to control his actions. It contrasts with the belief that man is judged and accountable for his own actions, and if he is under, he loses that ability. Hypnosis for medical/self-help purposes is more acceptable. K.C. |
|||||||||
|
Chessmann Inner circle 4247 Posts
|
Bish: "Well, when a preacher pointed his finger at me in the middle of the church service and said I was the son of the devil - is that saying that the preacher is uneducated in knowing about hypnosis and magician theater magic? I think not."
I think so, Bish. You are not the son of the devil. Therefore, that preacher was revealing a HUGE whole in his education and knowledge *about these things*. Bish: "Plus religious leaders have quite a lot of schooling and education." Bish, this is patently untrue. I am a missionary, and have encountered pastors and religious leaders all over the world. Most do not have seminary degrees. Even if they do, it doesn't guarantee decent knowledge in other areas. You misread my point about education. I am talking about coming to an 'educated' understaning of magic, not theological education. Read my other posts. For the nth time, if someone sees magicians like us as servants of satan, they simply are not educated *about what we do*. Bish: "Now I ask why would a highly educated religious leader do such a thing?" Answer: because he is not educated in the area under consideration. He learned about magic in the wrong context. He sees only "magic = devilry". This is not an educated position. He needs someone to tell him he is mistaken, and *why* he is mistaken. Maybe the pastor who pointed the finger at you had a theological degree. Maybe not. But one thing is certain - he didn't know what he was talking about, and his skills in dealing with people seem, unfortunately, sadly lacking.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
|
|||||||||
|
Alan M Elite user California 433 Posts
|
Why not explain that you are performing miracles? J.C. performed miracles and I don't think any Christians consider that black magic. Or you can point out some other black magic like electricity, fire and airplanes, or that box that produces pictures and sounds from signals sent through space, the mystical television. The only other option I can think of is to hold your laughter inside and run as fast as you can in the opposite direction from that mentality.
I do not believe that G-D will judge us based on double lifts and classic passes, unless they are very poorly done- and even then I think you would be judged more harshly by your fellow magi. Ok, I'll stop now... |
|||||||||
|
bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2005-08-02 16:26, KC wrote: Yes I have heard this many times before. While under self hypnosis is a stage show a subject DOES NOT lose control or give control up to another person - in fact they gain control. I lived in Salt lake City for two years. In fact I learned hypnosis from a hypnotist while there. The National Guild of Hypnotists have several members that ARE preachers. And many preachers take classes in self hypnosis - NLP etc.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
|||||||||
|
bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2005-08-02 16:30, Chessmann wrote: First of all I read your post and although it may be true what you say in many cases I do not think that it is true in ALL cases. I also met this preacher in his office and he was a college graduate. Traveled. Etc. He spoke of Andre Kole and his magic show. I feel that if he knows about Andre Kole and Gospel magic he might have an idea but perhaps not a complete education of theater magic. Quote:
On 2005-08-02 16:30, Chessmann wrote: Or magician in the audience ATTENTION TIME! Quote:
On 2005-08-02 16:30, Chessmann wrote: Here is another story. I was contacted by a small school in a small town Puxico MO by the head of a High School art department to do a fund raising hypnotic show for the school. I went down dropped off the materials like posters etc. About a month and a half later I go down and do the first of two shows the afternoon matinee. I packed the house and because I do a good show the show is a hit. As the audience is leaving I talk to teachers and students about hypnotism. An older gent comes up in a tie and shakes my hand and says I had no idea your show was like this! This was great - funny - educational - you even did a positive blessing at the end of your show! While I am shaking hands with this gent I notice the woman that booked me listening and freaking out at this. I finish my conversation with this gent and he leaves. The woman that booked me comes over and says - "Do you know who that was?" (I thought it was one of the teachers) "That is that preacher of the largest church in town. He has been on the radio and in the newspapers talking about the son of the devil that is coming to town and doing a hypnosis show in our high school"! "He even booked a revival meeting tonight at the exact time your show is!" The teacher in charge of the art department was a Deacon at this church. From here I found out that this man grew up in New York and has quite an education. The positive blessing at the end of my show is that I give students positive suggestions. In religious service it is often called the healing! To sum up my story the 2nd show had 23 people. And I feel that in some cases it is not a lack of education involved in a case like this. I feel that this was a bid for ATTENTION, PROMOTION, and POWER in his local town and community!
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
|||||||||
|
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
|
I suspect it's not the playing cards themselves thay may concern folks but HOW you handle the cards and WHAT you present.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2005-08-02 17:17, Jonathan Townsend wrote: In many (perhaps, most) cases, you're absolutely right. For some folks, however, it's the cards themselves, irrespective of what you're doing with them. (OK, OK: maybe if you're burning them it's fine, just so long as you don't restore them afterward.) |
|||||||||
| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » Religious opposition to card magic? » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
| Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next] | ||||||||||
Posted: Aug 2, 2005 11:52 am 
| [ Top of Page ] |
|
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.05 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
|
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < 
|