|
|
|
|||
| Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next] | ||||||||||
Ron Giesecke Special user Redding, Ca. 947 Posts 
|
First of all John, I wasn't adressing you, but I appreciate the interjection. Maybe you didn't notice that. Second thing you didn't notice is what I said about respecting those who do not want to see our magic when we go up to THEM.
Those who want to ESCHEW an activity they had no idea would be taking place in their presence is not the same as "hitting Koreans with a stick" (an asinine comparison). I'll make my point one more time. 1) People we approach who do not wish to see our magic on religious grounds DO deserve respectful treatment, and have nothing to apologize for. 2) People who were captive to Penn & Teller's blindsiding "second coming" fiasco deserve an apology, and will never see one. Lastly, from the "turtle fireman finally makes it to the conflagration department," I quote your last line: "Unless they're actively hurting other people, it's probably best to ignore them. You're not going to change anyone's mind." If I seem a bit terse, it's because I'm a bit irritated that the obvious point I'm making is being deliberately appropriated for non-germaine soapboxes. Not that I expect this post to stop that. |
|||||||||
Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2005-08-09 19:08, Ron Giesecke wrote: Though this is completely off topic and more than likely will get this thread locked but I was not aware that Penn and Teller had in anyway restrained the attendees of AJ's roast at the WMS. It was a late night show and there was plenty of warning that offensive material was more than likely to be used. I have a friend who was deeply offended at a past PCAM when he was "forced" to sit through a religious diatribe inflicted upon the audience by Andre Kole in one of the evenings performances. Both acts are equally offensive depending upon ones relative position.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
|
|||||||||
JohnLamberti Elite user Los Angeles, CA 420 Posts
|
Ron:
Looking back I realize I mis-read your post. My apologies. I thought you were talking about respecting all beliefs in general, which is patently absurd, and that got me going. After rereading your post, I see what you're talking about. Sometimes I get riled up and don't pay attention to things I should pay attention to. When I do magic, I make sure that the people I'm performing for are receptive. If you perform for someone who then berates you for being in league with the devil, I think that it means you haven't taken the time to make sure your audience is receptive to the idea. Or am I crazy? And following your logic, do I deserve an apology if I am "blindsided" by a wacky person who subjects me to a diatribe about their crazy beliefs? |
|||||||||
|
Ron Giesecke Special user Redding, Ca. 947 Posts
|
John,
No problem. Thank you. As far as apologies go, if someone walks into your environment and trashes your beliefs, then an apolgoy is warranted. I cite P & T, as they did not elucidate their beliefs. They actively trashed the faith of others. And I happen to like them, nonetheless. Nobody berates me for being in league with the devil. I have approached tables in which the people I was addressing let me know that what I am doing goes against their beliefs, and they usually just refuse my services. They may believe I am in league with the devil, but no one has been that direct. I am actually thankful that most people head me off at the pass, so that discomfort is avoiuded at the outset. These incidents are rare (in my case, and I assume most), but do provide great "what if" fodder for discussion. By the way. Satan is behind Armando Lucero's matrix. Just kidding. And I am sorry about my tone. I do that every now and then. I hate yelling at people I don't know. Have a good day, and thanks, Ron |
|||||||||
|
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2005-08-09 19:08, Ron Giesecke wrote:... The roast was FOR Jonathan. The humor was pointed to his sensibilities, to jibe and amuse. How did he react? If someone's beliefs don't permit them to enjoy some forms of humor using some icons, it's better to avoid such when attempting to entertain. Is there a prohibition against gambling in the bible? I recall there is one against fortune-telling. Perhaps any effect that uses the cards as an oracle might be crossing the line. Once you know what a thing means to someone, you can use it to dramatic effect in theatrical context. More to the point, I recommend C. S. Lewis's The Screwtape Letters to those who wish to consider more serious matters of evil in the world.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
|
daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2005-08-01 12:57, Magic333 wrote: I have had this experience on multiple occasions. They are very adamant about this too. In fact, I will be candid, and tell you that twenty or so years ago, I was involved with a group of these folks, and they had convinced me that the best way to honor God was to have a "burning" of my "evil" magic props (books and all). That is how fervent they can be in their assertations. Did you know that books that are "possesed" "scream" when they are tossed into a fire? Please don't take me seriously on that point, because I am just pointing out how ridiculous this all can get, and to what lengths these people can go. Try your best to ignore them.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
|
|||||||||
dpe666 Inner circle 2895 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2005-08-02 16:26, KC wrote: Being LDS (suprise suprise!), I have never had to deal with any opposition at all. Sure, other LDS people are terrified of me, avoid me, and think I am very strange (they are right), but no LDS person has ever said that mentalism/card magic has anything to do with Satan. I always get a chuckle when people have the guts enough to come up to me after the show or even on the street (total strangers) and "witness" to me, trying to "save my eternally ***ed soul".  |
|||||||||
|
ToPher Regular user Somewhere 120 Posts
|
Man there was to much to read so I only read the 1st post but I love to perform for people like this cause it gets a rise in their shorts! Tricks like Fisher's "The omen" (great plot) an Andrus's Satans Shuffle. Let them think its black magic who cares!
|
|||||||||
Daniel Faith Inner circle Neenah, Wisconsin 1526 Posts
|
Childrens magic got it's start in churches and sunday schools.
A person who cannot discern between conjuring a demon and producing a rabbit has a problem. I have been fortunate to have only ran into one individual who was so narrow minded as to think I was working in league with Satan. Just pray for them that God opens their eyes to see reality. You won't change their mind.
Daniel Faith
|
|||||||||
|
daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2005-08-19 17:59, Daniel Faith wrote: Amen! Very well put.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
|
|||||||||
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24315 Posts
|
There is no accounting for stupidity and ignorance.
If Missouri is the Bible Belt, Dallas, Texas is the buckle. I was doing a show for a group of travel agents in Dallas, as a representative of the Texas Renaissance Festival. I was in my Merlin outfit. There was a couple in the front row who would not even look at me during the entire performance. And I don't do anything that even remotely references the occult. OTOH, the folks at Scarborough Faire got a letter from a group called TARA "Texans Against Ritualistic Abuse." The letter was in regards to MarcoM, whose cape has a pentagram on the back of it. He does his famous "Evil Eye" routine during the show. This is done completely tongue in cheek. The letter stated: "We wish to complain about the occult and Satanic nature of the performance of your magician. Not that nice Merlin fellow, but that other one." When they showed it to MarcoM, he said, "D***it! As many times as I say 'Oh great MarcoM' during my show, and they couldn't even remember my name?" I once had a fellow tell me, "I can do all of those things, all I need to do is call up a demon." (He was a recent convert to Christianity.) I said, "Be very careful what you say. They may be listening."
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
|||||||||
love2laugh Veteran user 374 Posts
|
It is very disturbing to see some people consider card magic to be associated with the Devil. I will be cautious when performing at church charity functions.
|
|||||||||
|
dpe666 Inner circle 2895 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2005-08-20 00:55, love2laugh wrote: Why? |
|||||||||
art the magic guy! Regular user back in the USA, FINALLY!! 159 Posts
|
During an Army training I performed magic for the group. As a group of guys were talking about it, a gal got a jist of it, and immeditately told me how the devil works via magic. I told her this wasn't a seance or voodoo, just card magic. No she immeditely said that it was trickery, and that supernatural things are devil in nature. all trickery was condemned in the bible. I even offered to show her how I did an ACR, but she refused to even watch how the sleights are done.
I don't want to sound offensive towards religious people, for Im a christian myself...but if we really want to go that route then---she had short hair, and in the Bible it says that short hair brings shame to a woman. Olymipc athletes have unusual physical abilities, so then by them having this supernatural abilities like able to run a 3 min. mile, they are possesed? Our bodies are the temple of CHrist according to the bible, and Im often hussled by my tatoo because I'm defacing the temple and not taking care if it, yet the ones that are telling me this are morbidly obese, do not excercise and eat a lot of "crap"--pretty much doing the same thing they accuse me of doing. sometimes they don't make a whole lot of sense. Like always, only the parts that benefit them are quoted. there's a bible verse that goes along with this situations. Its not a word for word quote,but Even Jesus itself said" Let him that has no sin cast the first stone" In the end, what I tell people that do mention this is "evil" and is just a non paid performace: Well Im sorry you feel this way about what I do, but if you don't want to watch, the door is right over there..."
I AM AN AMERICAN SOLDIER
I will ALWAYS place the mission first I will NEVER accept defeat I will NEVER quit I will NEVER leave a fallen comrade ----I AM AN AMERICAN SOLDIER---- |
|||||||||
Euangelion Special user 688 Posts
|
Card magic presents the biggest challenge of all for people performing for church groups. The suspicion comes from several paths which among fundamentalist and literalist Christians can become confounded together.
1) The Bible teaches against divination; why? Because it was understood to undermine the authority and will of God by determining it and then attempting to profit from it or subvert it. 2) The origins of cards are closely associated with divination, especially, with the invention of Tarot. 3) Among the Puritans and other groups all activity that was not fruitful and idle was suspect and sinful. Remember, "Idle hands make for idle minds." Work and worship were the purposes of human life, the leisure and rest of the sabbath was spent in study of God's word and worship. Recreation was not diversion from the struggle of life, it was requipping and rest for the struggle. 4)Combine these things together with a spirituality that still believes in spirituality of the demonic and unseen forces and knows nothing of sleight of hand and the same flashpoint of Salem still exists. Yet one more reason why no religion should have the full authority of the government at its disposal lest absolute authority, absolutely, corrupt. Quote:
On 2005-08-09 03:41, MichielTummers wrote: It better known as the Texas Two-step. 
Sorry, I couldn't help myself, the devil made me do it.
Bill Esborn
"Lutefisk: the piece of cod that passes all understanding." |
|||||||||
|
pierredan Special user Dai Vernon's birthplace 540 Posts
|
Quote:
On 2005-08-01 12:57, Magic333 wrote: You should have asked him if he was a member of Al Quaeda (tongue in cheek). No, seriously. Religious fundamentalism has many faces. There is a battle for the mind being waged right now. It is very disturbing to see how many people in the world today hold some form of fundamental religious beliefs which demonstrates a clear lack of logical reasoning. I for one, have no respect for such ignorant, close-minded, judgmental individuals. |
|||||||||
|
Euangelion Special user 688 Posts
|
BTW, in #3 in the post above. The idleness objection is, also, the same reason some of these religious groups object to dancing and going to movies. Objections they have held for decades before the current trends in violence, vulgarity and sexual expression common in film today. Moral decay was the product of having nothing "good" to do.
Bill Esborn
"Lutefisk: the piece of cod that passes all understanding." |
|||||||||
|
waltsal Loyal user 278 Posts
|
This is increasingly becoming an issue that Magi will have to face since one in every three Americans consider themselves to be fundamentalists and oppose any form of entertainment that is not part of their religious views. Most magicians have already run into the problem of True Believers and the problem will only continue to worsen.
One such group--The Christian Exodus movement-- has relocated to South Carolina with the avowed purpose of taking over the South Carolina government and "opposing the federal government." We have acquaintances who are absolutely scared stiff by any closeup magic, including cards, coins, ropes . Some have sent me religious literature and started phone prayer banks to save me from myself. They are absolutely serious and are very scary people. |
|||||||||
|
tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
|
But Silas in the great big town,
Was seen in evil places- He met with men who played with cards And girls with painted faces. If you pull out a deck that is what they think of and you can not blame them for thinking it. Blame the Slickers.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
|||||||||
RevJohn Inner circle Oregon City Oregon, Oregon 2473 Posts
|
I had a fellow stop by my church, and ask me to talk. I sat down and he stated that he noticed that I have a magic club that meets at our church.
My first thought, "Wonderful. Another person who wants to join." Not so luck. His comment, "You are a stumbling block before men, and you are going to hell." My comment, "Conversation over. You know where the door is..." Oh, I forgot to mention that he started the conversation with his story that he was sent to Juneau when he hear Jesus speak to him in his truck where he was sleeping in Tennessee. That was a first for me. Other than him, I have had no other bad run-ins with Church folk. John |
|||||||||
| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » Religious opposition to card magic? » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
| Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next] | ||||||||||
Posted: Aug 9, 2005 11:08 pm 
| [ Top of Page ] |
|
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.05 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
|
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < 
|