The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magic names and the media » » Has Michael Ammar Popularized OR Overexposed Card Magic? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
Magic333
View Profile
New user
62 Posts

Profile of Magic333
I think Michael Ammar has only added to the Magic world. His videos were and are very popular. When they first came out, yes many magicians were doing all his effects. Now, many have been morphed into the rest of what is out there.
I think there are plenty of laymen out there who have never even seen a closeup magician and certainly will not burn you as getting the Ammar tape.
rannie
View Profile
Inner circle
4355 Posts

Profile of rannie
Michael popularized magic. Over exposure came way way after that.
"If you can't teach an old dog new tricks, trick the old dog to learn."

-Rannie Raymundo-
aka The Boss
aka The Manila Enforcer

www.rannieraymundo.com
www.tapm.proboards80.net
GlenD
View Profile
Inner circle
LosAngeles, Ca
1298 Posts

Profile of GlenD
In answer to the original question... NO
"A miracle is something that seems impossible but happens anyway" - Griffin

"Any future where you succeed, is one where you tell the truth." - Griffin (Griffin rocks!)
Geoff Weber
View Profile
Inner circle
Washington DC
1361 Posts

Profile of Geoff Weber
I think the relevant question to ask is, was "Red Hot Mama" a popular/common card trick among magicians prior to Ammar. The answer is yes... The biggest difference in magic of the good ol' days and magic of the information age is homogenization... In the old days it wasn't the tricks that got spread around, it was the plot... Magic was much more locale dependent.. you learned magic from the magical peers and teachers in your area...(Chicago magicians had called it the Chicago Opener) they were the ones pointing out which books to look at... Lets not kid ourselves here about the hard work we put into "discovering" these gems... We've always had help, it just hasn't always been in the form of video or a message board. The guys showing it to you would also put their own spin on it, so Larry Jennings take on Homing Card would be a bit different then Fred Kaps. Now that more people are learning the trick from the same teacher, (Ammar) there's less diversity in how its presented, but there have always been certain card plots that had a greater popularity among magicians..
Richard Shippy
View Profile
Special user
Scottsdale, Arizona
510 Posts

Profile of Richard Shippy
Quote:
On 2005-08-03 16:07, Geoff Weber wrote:
Now that more people are learning the trick from the same teacher, (Ammar) there's less diversity in how its presented, but there have always been certain card plots that had a greater popularity among magicians..


Very good point!

Related to this point, I'm wondering if the versions Ammar is teaching are the cleanest methods or just the easiest to learn? If we have less diversity I hope the magic is as strong. An example on Ammar's ETMCM videos which stands out for me is his version of Reset which does not require palming. I don't think this method is as clean as Paul Harris' original but it is much easier. Is Ammar's teaching philosophy and videos promoting learning a ton of easy effects? Wouldn't it be better for beginning magicians to learn a few well contructed effects that may be more difficult but look better? The Ammar ETMCM volumes are an excellent resource for seeing what great things are possible with a deck of cards yet with sooooo many easy to learn effects could this be counterproductive by promoting quantity over quality?

I guess these are just some points to add. I really think Ammar is a wonderful magician and a person. I met him at a recent lecture and he was very nice and helpful.

Take care,
Rich
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." ~ Winston Churchill
JoeFreedom
View Profile
Regular user
164 Posts

Profile of JoeFreedom
I think a little of both. He did re-popularize some of the best card magic ever, but I think that the overexposure is primarily to magicians. I dropped Twisting the Aces for a while because everyone seemed to be doing it. As Magic333 pointed out, most Magi have gone on to the newest phenom. There are still a ton of unAmmared gems in the books for the rest of us. I do think he is an excellent teacher though.

Joe
JoeFreedom

Whether you think you can, or think you can't, you're probably right.
Richard Shippy
View Profile
Special user
Scottsdale, Arizona
510 Posts

Profile of Richard Shippy
I actually made a list of all the effects on ETMCM in an effort to try and avoid performing any of the routines. Unfortunatetly, there are many effects in this series I enjoy. Ammar did a wonderful job gathering some of the best themes in card magic. It is hard to not use any of the items but it does seem like many of us here on the Café perform quite of few of them at a high frequency. Card warp, McDonalds Aces, Twisting the Aces, OOTW, Dr. Daley's Last Trick, Jumping Gemini, Twins, Cannibal Cards, etc. The tricks are very strong so it's hard to avoid them just because they are on ETMCM. The presentational style can certainly be changed to personalize the effects.
"They say that nobody is perfect. Then they tell you practice makes perfect. I wish they'd make up their minds." ~ Winston Churchill
scorch
View Profile
Inner circle
1480 Posts

Profile of scorch
There is no danger of overexposure, only of lowered standards. Unlike the Penguin Magic crowd, Ammar has some very high standards for what he performs and teaches. Ammar's videos are well known among magicians and virtually unknown in the popular culture, which is the way it ought to be.

I am continually surprised that virtually no laymen know even the most famous card tricks like Twisting the Aces, Out of this World, and Triumph. You usually have to go to magic clubs to perform for laymen or other magicians that will be knowlegeable and somewhat jaded such that the material on Ammar's videos would be ill advised.

As far as I see it, the more *quality* magic that can be performed and exposed to the public the better, to rehabilitate the idea of card magic as legitimate theater and undo the damage of the blow-dried magicians and goofy geeks of the 70s like Mark Wilson and Doug Henning. Magic needs to become cool and respectable again, and I think Ammar has pushed things along towards that goal.

If the imagination and attention of the general public and popular culture is ever engaged such that the most popular card effects become too well known to be performed, that would be a tremendously good thing for magic. I would take the challenge of avoiding a small amount of well-known effects any day if I could trade away the current apathy about magic in the minds of the public these days. I know he sucks technically, but we all owe a debt to David Blaine for making magic cool again, and for engaging the public in a positive way so they will take more of an interest in OUR work.
Dennis Loomis
View Profile
1943 - 2013
2113 Posts

Profile of Dennis Loomis
How do Lay people think of card tricks? I did a show last week. When I brought out a deck of cards, someone said: "I've seen that one before" I hadn't even taken the cards out of the box yet!

Lay people see almost no close up magic except, perhaps, on TV. There is zero chance that Michael Ammar has overexposed card magic. If he's popularized it among magicians, I see no problem with that.

Michael has done a wonderful job of selecting some of the greatest card magic to share on this series of DVD's. Be thankful for that. It's a resource for all of us. Just understand that this is a series of Magic Shop type demos. Most of it is not in Michael's professional repertoire, and it is not intended to be copied verbatim and done for lay people. Bring something of YOURSELF to the performance. Change the moves to ones which suit you. Come up with a novel presentational hook. Consider the DVD's to be like a book of piano music. The book does not make you a pianist, and watching Michael and learning a few easy moves does not make you a magician. This is the starting point.

Dennis Loomis
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com
wsduncan
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle, WA
3619 Posts

Profile of wsduncan
Ammar hasn’t done anything on video that hadn’t already been done by Glen Gravatt, Jean Hugard, Frank Garcia, and others in book form. He compiled a great collection of material and presented it in a useful fashion. Oh, actually he did do one thing differently… he made sure the creators got credit, and gave permission for their material to be used.

The “Easy to Master” series is, I think, misunderstood. Having the effect demonstrated by someone makes it easier to understand what needs to be understood to acquire the effect. “Easy to Master” doesn’t mean “magic for beginners”. The problem is that many folks who aren’t ready for the material due to their own immaturity (in magic, not age) begin learning card magic there instead of something more suitable.

Those of us here on the Café can take some of the blame for that. Every newbie who finds the Café with a Google search after he sees David Blaine on TV is told that he should buy ETMCM. It’s a credit to Michael’s choice of material and his skill as a teacher that so many folks who start with those videos can actually do some credible card magic. The have huge holes in their knowledge due to not having learned the basics first but eventually they’ll buy Card College (or at least Royal Road and ETC) and “backfill” their education.

And for those still reading (Anyone? Bueller? ) if you don’t like that everyone is doing the same tricks how about buying one of the books those tricks came from and learning something new? It’s not like those are the only good card tricks around after all.

Or you could create something of your own…

(sorry, I get like this sometimes… I’m better now)

Quote:
On 2005-08-03 16:35, Richard Shippy wrote:
An example on Ammar's ETMCM videos which stands out for me is his version of Reset which does not require palming.

I may be having a senior moment here but the version he teaches on ETMCM is Paul Harris' handling is it not? Paul was one of the technical advisors for the series (along with Eric Mead).

As far as I know most versions of Re-set (including Bro. John's seminal routine from which ReSet is derived "The Underground Transposition") do not require palming.
Essie
View Profile
Loyal user
Boulder, CO
278 Posts

Profile of Essie
I don't really think that Ammar has either popularized or overexposed magic for the average person off the street ;-). Actually, I have yet to meet a single person who has heard of Ammar who is not a magician. As for the worry about the tricks on the ETMCM series becoming widely recongized by laymen, I'm not too concerned about it. The only trick that I've ever had someone say that they recognized was the Ambitious Card, and that was just because Blaine did it on TV over and over again.

Certainly, it is important for magicians to add their own personal touches and patter to the tricks they perform, and excecute them smoothly, but I don't see how anyone can be blamed for someone else performing their routines poorly, or word-for-word. I know that some of the ETMCM videos helped me immensly when I was starting out, predominantly in terms of gaining confidence performing magic and proficiency at such slights as the double lift, elmsly count, etc. I always practiced to where I felt I could perform the illusion well enough to do it justice before I ever thought about actually showing it to anyone, and it's too bad that others might not do the same. Also, the videos (in part) helped to open my eyes to things I would not have otherwise thought possible with a deck of cards, and helped me realize that almost anything is possible in terms of card effects. As such, I now try to create my own unique illusions as much as possible, either improved versions of other tricks I've seen, or completely new ones, with the knowledge I've gained so far. I certainly perform many other tricks, including a few from ETMCM, but I try to adapt them as much as possible rather than ripping them off word-for-word from the original source.
"Comfort the disturbed, disturb the comfortable."
-Jeff McBride
Suave Dan
View Profile
Special user
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
656 Posts

Profile of Suave Dan
Overexposure, possibly caused by Blaine, not by Ammar
RP
View Profile
New user
78 Posts

Profile of RP
Websites that offer free magic secrets expose magic more than Michael Ammar's videos. His series has definitly given card magic a popularity boost, among magicians. It has made it so much easier for newcomers and old salts to get into card magic. Some may say that people need to search for the effects that Ammar teaches, but that time has come and gone. As much as I hate to say it, if that was the only way to learn more, there wouldn't be nearly as many people choosing this art form and with the current lack of popularity, that is something that magic can't afford. Enough of my ramblings, but I'll leave you with one last thought:

The only thing Michael Ammar has overexposed is himself.
adgnyc
View Profile
Loyal user
New York City
293 Posts

Profile of adgnyc
Anyone can buy a magic DVD, just as anyone has always been able to buy a magic book. True, now the internet has made it easier, but DVDs are more expensive than books. In short, anyone can (now as ever) learn magic, but it takes a commitment of money and effort. Michael Ammar has done an excellent job with his videos and, I would guess, has jump-started more genuine magic enthusiasts than given away secrets to the merely curious.
Adam Green
New York, NY
LR2
View Profile
Regular user
Humble, Texas
116 Posts

Profile of LR2
I do not think Mr. Ammar has overexposed magic. I think it is a good thing what he has done. It really helps the ones who are getting into the art. Also, I think that if one does not want to be caught using a trick that others use constantly one must invent their own tricks or buy the latest material; your choice. Although I prefer showing my own material.

Guys, if you have been performing for more than two years I really reccomend trying to develop your own tricks I always like to do 2 or 3 of my own effects in a performace. They do not need to be the best in your routine but no one would have seen it previously.
Joshua Lozoff
View Profile
Inner circle
Chapel Hill, NC
1332 Posts

Profile of Joshua Lozoff
What? Blaine has overexposed magic like Springsteen overexposed rock and roll. I'll bet I owe about 1/5 of my gigs (and I make a full-time living from magic) to Mr. Blaine's popularity.

Quote:
On 2005-08-04 00:17, Iceman90 wrote:
Overexposure, possibly caused by Blaine, not by Ammar
Joshua Lozoff

joshualozoff.com
chrisrkline
View Profile
Special user
Little Rock
965 Posts

Profile of chrisrkline
I think we worry too much about what the lay people know. If you are working a gig with other magicians, you need to watch what effects you perform, true, but otherwise it is hard to find lay people who have ever seen even the popular Triumph.

As far as making up your own tricks: Make up tricks if you are good at that and because it satisfies an artistic need inside of yourself. Do not make up tricks just because you worry laypeople will know your tricks.
Chris
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27145 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
Quote:
On 2005-08-04 09:25, chrisrkline wrote:
I think we worry too much about what the lay people know. ...


They know what we show them. Unless they are watching the Ammar videos.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
dan84
View Profile
Loyal user
251 Posts

Profile of dan84
Surely he must get paid a lot to do these DVD's, even though most of the material is not his. Another example is Daryl. Magic is too easily available these days. I can remember waiting years to find a trick and what not and when I did it was the most amazing feeling, sadly I feel that has gone out of magic.
Just my opinion.
Dan
chrisrkline
View Profile
Special user
Little Rock
965 Posts

Profile of chrisrkline
Dan, you are describing your pleasent feelings and the wisdom of patience. You can still live magic that way by digging through the old books or looking for new ways to present the classics. I have nothing against any magician doing other's material, with permission. If what Ammar does bothers magicians, then the easy solution is to ignore the ETMCM series. Unless you just happen to do one of those classic routines, exactly like Ammar, then there is no problem. The question of whether the ETMCM series makes for better or worse magicians is a much more difficult question. I have a number of old Scarne books filled with hundreds of self-working effects. These books are over 50 years old and possibly had a similar popularity with new magicians as the ETMCM series does today. I suspect that the Ammar series contains a better repetoire of magic, but in both the Scarne books and the Ammar series, if you wanted to expand much beyond the hobbiest level, you would need to digmove beyond these sources and seek out those harder to find books. I have moved beyond Ammar to the original books by Vernon, Harris, Fechter, Skinner, Maskelyne, Hamman, Elmsey, etc.
Chris
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magic names and the media » » Has Michael Ammar Popularized OR Overexposed Card Magic? (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.19 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL